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  1. #1
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    WWE Extreme Rules 2018

    Next up on the WWE event calendar - for the main roster, in any case - is Extreme Rules on July 15th. Apparently this will be the tenth show to bear that name.


    Discussion of the event here.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  2. #2
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    So why didn't the WWE hold off on the LMS match for extreme rules then? Now we will either have one more *yawn* match between Nakamura and Styles or a completely rushed feud just to have the Smackdown champ on the card.

    Also, what in the hell do we do with the Reigns/Strwoman problem? Strowman was calling out Lesnar prior to winning MITB, and called him out after the match. Reigns is also going to "want" his rematch due to the way that the cage match ended.

    Is the WWE going to finally move past Reigns/Lesnar IV and allow Strowman be the one to take the title off Lesnar?

  3. #3
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    Nak/Styles has to be done. I could honestly see a multi person title match though unless they leave people off the card.

    Don't think the Lesnar issue will be resolved. I'm hoping Braun just goes to his farm and cashes in.

  4. #4
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LK3185 View Post
    Don't think the Lesnar issue will be resolved. I'm hoping Braun just goes to his farm and cashes in.
    Now that would be something. But rumors are floating around indicating that Lesnar has no upcoming dates for the summer booked including SummerSlam. So I could see the WWE having Lesnar losing at Extreme Rules in July or showing up on a RAW prior to that and Strowman cashing in then.

  5. #5
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    But rumors are floating around indicating that Lesnar has no upcoming dates for the summer booked..... So I could see the WWE having Lesnar losing at Extreme Rules in July
    That'd be a neat trick. Interesting to see how he can lose in July if he's not being booked in the summer.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  6. #6
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    Ha ha, but you get my point.

  7. #7
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Unless you've heard a different version of the rumour than I have, then actually, I don't. Either the rumour is true, and he can't be beaten before Summerslam because he isn't being booked in the summer, or the rumour is false, and he can be beaten in the summer - including at Summerslam. I don't see how the rumour can be true and him still lose in the next couple of months at the same time.

    Now, if you've heard something that says he's not being booked in the later summer, then that'd be different. But what I've heard is they're not tieing him down to any upcoming shows throughout the whole summer. And that's why it's been reasonably big news.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  8. #8
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    Gotcha, sorry for the confusion. I heard/read that Lesnar has not been booked for the summer including SummerSlam, without specific dates to when the summer is being classified.

    My own reading of the tea leaves is that the WWE is going to accommodate Lesnar's wish to fight in at least one more UFC bout and allow him to take time off to train for the fight. That means that Lesnar will have to show up on a RAW between tonight and Extreme Rules to drop the title. The easiest way to do so is for Strowman to come out tonight and call out Lesanr to RAW next week and challenge him. Then Lesanr shows up next Monday and loses the belt and he can go on his merry way to train.

    Unfortunately with that scenario is that it most likely means we will get another Reigns/Strowman feud leading into SummerSlam.

  9. #9
    "OMG ZigGLEr wAs baNnEd fRoM ThE MaTcH!!" - Michael Cole

  10. #10
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    This might be the least anyone has given a fuck about a WWE PPV, judging by the replies.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  11. #11
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    Both the build and the show itself I think demonstrated once again WWE's current inability to present a cohesive vision for their future in both the short and long term. The issues aren't limited to just bad creative but extend also to the muddled and confusing roster positioning that seems to shift focus every other week and has no idea as to who the top dogs are and aren't.

    Roster positioning is everything. Without clarity of it, the meanings of events become almost impenetrably opaque.

  12. #12
    Puerto Rican dude living in Japan Degenerate's Avatar
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    If there's anyone from Pittsburgh here, I'm sure your town is wonderful and has some fine people in it. But I would be pleased if the WWE never gave Pittsburgh another televised event ever again. That crowd was way too annoying.

  13. #13
    Super Moderator Team Farrell's Avatar
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    I wound up watching the show last night, actually. I haven't watched a wrestling show for any company live since WrestleMania, but happened to be back in town and too exhausted to do much else at about the time it started.

    I liked the majority of the show. Most of the wrestling was good, and I was pleasently surprised that the IC title match main evented the show.

    I thought Roman and Lashley had a really good match, and I'd like to see Lashley vs Brock. After the promo Heyman cut on him over Twitter I kind of figured that was direction that they were going. I really hope they don't add "The Uncrowned Universal Champion" and make it a bullshit triple threat where Lashley eats a pin and they protect Brock.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Degenerate View Post
    If there's anyone from Pittsburgh here, I'm sure your town is wonderful and has some fine people in it. But I would be pleased if the WWE never gave Pittsburgh another televised event ever again. That crowd was way too annoying.
    As annoying as they were with that countdown I did chuckle that they kept making the buzzing sound at 0

  15. #15
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    My full thoughts are in my column but I could not have been more frustrated and annoyed at that crowd. I normally don't mind too much about a loud crowd because most of the time they chant and cheer about the wrestling. This was different. It was the WWE changing course and putting a potentially historic main event match together between two of the best wrestlers in the company and the audience spitting it back at them.

    Everyone in that crowd loses the right to ever complain about a Roman Reigns or part timer main event.



    @Sir_Samuel

  16. #16
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    I agree, Sam. Though, honestly, I'm more annoyed at how the fans on the net have so quickly adopted a demonstrably false narrative in pretending the reaction was a rejection of the match, rather than what it really was: just a bit of (incredibly annoying and disrespectful) silliness.

  17. #17
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    The main event was shoddy though, and iron man matches never go over well, unless you take the utmost care. The clock gimmick, the laying on the ground, the idiotic interference, the ultimate death match 'because we're gonna have a finish', banning Mcintyre from the ring, only for him to come back anyways and decisively interfere in the finish, and for Kurt not to do anything about it, it was all stupid.

    They should have just had AJ/Rusev main event if they were going to do those sorts of shenanigans. The whole 'don't end shows with screwy finishes' and 'send the crowd home happy' guidelines apply.
    Last edited by Alan; 07-17-2018 at 09:56 AM.

  18. #18
    Agreed about AJ/Rusev.

    Nine falls in 31 minutes didn't make the main event any better either, IMO.

  19. #19
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    I think if they put Rusev over AJ, i would have loved for that to main event. I loved the match but felt like it had a flat ending cause people wanted Rusev to win. Its probably still the right call because the Ironman match had alot of problems going in besides the clock issue. No one asked for an ironman match between the two, Ziggler is a stale character who's failed in the main event before, also since Drew was there, the booking was ass backwards. Have Drew get thrown out within 5 mins and have Seth crawl back from a huge deficit to tie it up late. Instead, they went with a bunch of falls early and had a really boring middle while also fucking with the clock on the titan tron..

    They still had burn it down chants in the last few minutes so its not like they took a dump on the whole match.. it just was poorly planned. I get people's frustration with the crowd but that's not an excuse for bad booking.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirSam View Post
    My full thoughts are in my column but I could not have been more frustrated and annoyed at that crowd. I normally don't mind too much about a loud crowd because most of the time they chant and cheer about the wrestling. This was different. It was the WWE changing course and putting a potentially historic main event match together between two of the best wrestlers in the company and the audience spitting it back at them.

    Everyone in that crowd loses the right to ever complain about a Roman Reigns or part timer main event.
    LOL.

    Look I will grant you that counting down with the clock is a silly thing to do after the first time and, in my opinion, completely unoriginal if you're going to shit on something. But you and 'Plan are missing some key details. First, as Alan pointed out, Iron Man matches are problematic, regardless of whether you go a half an hour or an hour, because the audience is conditioned to believe the most important part of the match is the final five to ten minutes. Everyone knows that, even with some twists and turns early, the match is going to be tied or only a point differential by that point and thus the drama will be then, which makes the first part of the match difficult to get invested in. Second, putting the clock on the Titantron was hilariously dumb. I've seen many an Iron Man match in my day and I've never heard of them doing that. Several people (including LOP's long lost son Pen) have told me that's never happened, that they always kept the time on either a scoreboard or a stadium clock. In today's fan climate, putting that clock up in a match where fans are primarily going to be waiting for the final few minutes is dangerous, and WWE then made it worse by taking the clock off (I guarantee if they don't there's no heat from the fans in the middle section and this is just a minor annoyance) and then putting it back up. They did themselves no favors there.

    After that it comes down to subjectivity. I haven't seen the match so I won't comment on the quality and I sure as hell won't get on anyone for enjoying it if they did. But I also won't do that to any other opinion and there's a lot of people out there who thought this match was, at best, good but disappointing considering what it could've been and a few more who thought it just wasn't good given what looks like, from afar, some curious at best booking decisions. And that's all before getting into the reaction for the PPV overall, which hasn't been positive. Put that altogether and you have a main event with a problematic stipulation that is following three plus hours of a show that most of its audience seemed to not enjoy, with that clock looming large. I can understand not liking how the fans acted but to not understand why they did or to act like they shouldn't be allowed to react a certain way again just because they didn't do what you wanted...that's even dumber than what they did. At the end of the day if WWE didn't want that reaction then it seems to me they should've a) booked a better show leading up, b) booked a better match that didn't fail two really talented people (and judging from that booking, I don't blame Seth and Dolph at all for that), c) not encouraged this sort of behavior for years on end (everyone forgets this but WWE has glorified behaviors of these types of smark crowds going back to Wrestlemania 28) and d) not alienated their paying customers so much with a product many people complain about. No other promotion, not New Japan, Impact (who did get this treatment back in the Russo era), ROH, Lucha Underground, Progress, CMLL, AAA, All Japan or any one else gets this type of treatment. Some of it's culture, some of it is clearly because the fans don't think they're getting respect so they give the disrespect right back. And that is and will always be on WWE till they correct it.


  21. #21
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    Pen is still alive? Where is he, what happened to him?

  22. #22
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    Yeah, that Iron Man match was a big dumpster fire. The Iron Man gimmick doesnt work in modern times.

    The fans were just dumb. I wasnt even mad- I was laughing at how dumb the count chant was.


  23. #23
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    Ironman matches can work. Quite a few people have had good ones. Okada and Omega just had one that was regarded as an all-time great match. But it requires exceptional skill, agenting, and chemistry. You can't just throw any two guys in and hope it works.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    Pen is still alive? Where is he, what happened to him?
    He's alive, having a good time watching wrestling still. I managed to convince him to re-watch all of the Nitro era of WCW (he's at 1999 now and not enjoying it!) and gotten him to check out some New Japan and LU but he's still mainly WWE.

    Kleck, I wouldn't say the Iron Man match doesn't work these days; hell two of the best Iron Man matches I've ever seen (and mizfan will probably back me up) occurred in the past few years in Lucha Underground, first with Johnny Mundo (John Morrison) vs. Prince Puma (Ricochet) and then with Mundo against Willie Mack. Now LU had a few advantages WWE doesn't and the crowd was obviously more co-operative but even still those two matches worked and worked really well. So it can work. WWE's problem appears to be they had too much going against them to make it work and when you're going in cold, on that night, into a match that requires fans to be hot, it can lead to problems.


  25. #25
    Senior Member LWO4Life's Avatar
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    Wait, I thought Pen was Prime? Was I wrong?

  26. #26
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    You're kidding?

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  27. #27
    Senior Member LWO4Life's Avatar
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    Sort of, but, after, like, the second or third board reset I lost count of who was who and have no idea why.

  28. #28
    There's quite a few people I have wondered what happened to. irishSarah, MissouriDragon, Lexter, T.O. and Pen to name a few.

  29. #29
    The Brain
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    Christ, do I ever miss Missou.

    I kind of get where LWO is coming from, but also LOL at thinking Prime and Pen are the same. I like Pen but there's about a 1000% difference in niceness between them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cult Icon View Post
    Kleck, I wouldn't say the Iron Man match doesn't work these days; hell two of the best Iron Man matches I've ever seen (and mizfan will probably back me up) occurred in the past few years in Lucha Underground, first with Johnny Mundo (John Morrison) vs. Prince Puma (Ricochet) and then with Mundo against Willie Mack.

  30. #30
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    This attitude of the final minutes are all that counts is a terrible attitude to have. I could say exactly the same thing about any WWE main event match, you can basically walk away for the first 10 minutes, come back and you won't have missed 'anything that matters'

    Come to think of it you could say that about most tv shows too. May as well not watch the first 45 min of a 60 minute show, it is all set up and you know it's gonna be 60min anyway. Hell why even watch the first 8 episodes of a 10 episode season, everything goes down in the start 'doesn't matter' and the final episodes are where it counts.

    And the crazy thing is if you watch the match it actually sets up the narrative very well. Rollins has Ziggler's number tonight and it is only through outside interference that the heel can get back in the match. It also sets up the desperate surge at the end too as we know Rollins has it in him but the ticking clock gives Ziggler an escape.

    Point is those kind of comments are ridiculous if you actually think about the in ring product in a way that isn't first oriented to negativity which sadly most WWE 'fans' currently do.

    Could the wwe have handled it better? Maybe. Taking down the clock didn't help but at the same time the fans had been going for a solid 5 min or so with no appearance of slowing down and I can totally imagine how that decision got made in the heat of the moment. However that is besides the point as far as I'm concerned because that match was assaulted by the absolute worst kind of WWE 'fan'.



    @Sir_Samuel

  31. #31
    Senior Member LWO4Life's Avatar
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    LOL... There is. I just saw both were/are universal mods, I just thought change in name, lose the douche gimmick online. So sorry about that.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirSam View Post
    This attitude of the final minutes are all that counts is a terrible attitude to have. I could say exactly the same thing about any WWE main event match, you can basically walk away for the first 10 minutes, come back and you won't have missed 'anything that matters'

    Come to think of it you could say that about most tv shows too. May as well not watch the first 45 min of a 60 minute show, it is all set up and you know it's gonna be 60min anyway. Hell why even watch the first 8 episodes of a 10 episode season, everything goes down in the start 'doesn't matter' and the final episodes are where it counts.

    And the crazy thing is if you watch the match it actually sets up the narrative very well. Rollins has Ziggler's number tonight and it is only through outside interference that the heel can get back in the match. It also sets up the desperate surge at the end too as we know Rollins has it in him but the ticking clock gives Ziggler an escape.

    Point is those kind of comments are ridiculous if you actually think about the in ring product in a way that isn't first oriented to negativity which sadly most WWE 'fans' currently do.

    Could the wwe have handled it better? Maybe. Taking down the clock didn't help but at the same time the fans had been going for a solid 5 min or so with no appearance of slowing down and I can totally imagine how that decision got made in the heat of the moment. However that is besides the point as far as I'm concerned because that match was assaulted by the absolute worst kind of WWE 'fan'.
    I think of the WWE audience as battered gaslighted victims. They've basically been treated very poorly, ignored, dismissed and at times mocked, all because an intransigent senile billionaire has essentially reached the pinnacle of monopoly power and found a way to escape all accountability, that he can basically tell his own audience to fuck off without any consequences, to pursue his egotistical fixations.

    I don't really have any sympathy for the WWE, and especially not when they keep botching up their own shows despite having a stacked roster, because of the small-mindedness of their world view. The fans can only take so much. I for one hope this mix of apathetic booing and trolling continues.

  33. #33
    The Brain
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    There's no doubt the fans were very annoying. But I do agree overall, this doesn't happen in a company that's fostered a good relationship with their core audience.

    Quote Originally Posted by LWO4Life View Post
    LOL... There is. I just saw both were/are universal mods, I just thought change in name, lose the douche gimmick online. So sorry about that.
    Just shows you need to hang around here more often! Stop taking time off to do dumb stuff like care for your family, obviously!

  34. #34
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LWO4Life View Post
    lose the douche gimmick online
    Glad you added this bit!

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  35. #35
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    I should have stated Iron Man Matches don't work in modern WWE, lol. I'm actually just starting to go through season 1 of LU. Slowly. Episode here and there. I'll make a point of looking out for those matches, Iken!



    It was obvious Prime is Pen by how much Prime loves the horror genre.



    There is something in the notion that if an audience/consumer base is being treated right, that they don't hijack shows with inappropriate chants, but there are so many variables there. How long has the product been around? Boredom with the product doesnt always indicate that something is actually wrong with the product. Some of these fans are just shit heads. We have to come to grips with that. Our own kind no less. For shame.

    Some of those fans are jilted adults, like ex lovers, the kids now get all the love while you are left on the proverbial couch.

    And partially because WWE is on watered down cruise control.
    Last edited by Kleckamania; 07-18-2018 at 10:27 AM.


  36. #36
    I think both sides are at fault. WWE for not releasing better product and mishandling the show and the fan base at Extreme rules for being retarded and thinking their funny when they were counting down with the clock. That being said, fans complain that the WWE likes to treat them like idiots, but it's easy to see why the WWE can get away with it after how the fans acted.

    AJ Styles Vs. Rusev should have been the main event no doubt. That bad booking and match placement is on the WWE, however bad booking and match placement is something that the fanbase should have been used to long ago...

  37. #37
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    Sorry but the 'both sides are at fault' narrative does not apply to this case. It's obvious and has been obvious for several years that there are glaring problems with WWE booking and intransigence, that trying to deflect it by 'well, some of the fans are shitheads' is silly. Every company has shithead fans. Only one company garners this kind of reaction, and it's the only company that has unmasked contempt for their fans, and is engaged in an ego struggle with its own audience, and relishes in 'proving them wrong'.

    It reminds of all the way back to 2010 when they did NXT, and did the fan voting or whatever, and brought in Daniel Bryan, who was winning all the fan voting over the company's handpicked guys Barrett and Ryback. So the company went into total panic mode, and tried to humiliate Bryan each and every week in the hopes that his fan support would wither away, because the fans are obviously too stupid to know what they want. It didn't end up working at all, and eventually they just had to outright eliminate Bryan. (Amusingly, Bryan details this stuff in his book, which the WWE somehow approved).

    What sort of other company does this sort of shit? Host some sort of polling-based talent show, and then completely disregarding the polls because the fans don't worship the muscular guys the 70 year old man-child does.

    Of course Wade Barrett and Ryback and Sheamus (another WWE favourite) ended up going nowhere and never being even a quarter of the stars that Bryan and Punk ended up becoming. The WWE didn't learn their lessons from NXT, and tried all their old shenanigans with burying Bryan at WM 28, only to have it backfire spectacularly. Or the Punk/HHH stuff in 2011.

    The reality is they've been disregarding their own audience for at least 8~ years now, all the while insisting that daddy knows best, and that Roman Reigns really is the one that's best that everyone *should* like. Well, it's a failed experiment, and people are tired of it and their patience has ran out.
    Last edited by Alan; 07-18-2018 at 02:19 PM.

  38. #38
    Super Moderator Team Farrell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by comfortablynumb View Post
    The reality is they've been disregarding their own audience for at least 8~ years now, all the while insisting that daddy knows best, and that Roman Reigns really is the one that's best that everyone *should* like. Well, it's a failed experiment, and people are tired of it and their patience has ran out.
    Then why the fuck go!? Why go to Extreme Rules at all? If their patience has run out and they hate the product so damn much, why go? These fan obviously know that there are alternatives, they obviously know where to find them, these are the very definition of smart marks.

    This isn't about them running out of patience or hating the booking. This is about a bunch of "fun and ironic" modern wrestling fans, who are the people I despise more than anyone, thinking of something "funny" to get themselves over on TV.

    At the end of the day, if they are so disgruntled, why bother going? Going and trying to get yourself over at the expense of two workers that every one of those people doing the "cute" countdown would claim to like isn't going to make "change". It isn't going to make Vince McMahon sit up and say "shit, I need to change something." It's just going to ruin the match for the people watching at home.

    By all accounts Triple H and Billy Kidman ran the show Sunday night and made changes to the original card. It's fair to infer that Triple H went out of his way to put a match in the main event that fans would enjoy.

    Stay home. Cancel your Network subscription. Watch New Japan or Lucha Underground or whatever product you actually like. Speak with your wallet and hit Vince in his. Be Cult Icon.

    But being cute isn't making change. Ruining a match that two workers you'd claim to like and respect are working hard to put on isn't making change. It's just distracting people watching at home and sucking all of the energy out of the guys working the match. This isn't the fans taking over the night after WrestleMania during Sheamus vs Orton 53 (which I also had an issue with at the time), this is just people disrespecting and shitting on two guys working hard to get themselves over.

    If I were Rollins or Ziggler, next house show in Pittsburgh, I'm phoning that shit in. I'm going out there, locking on a headlock, and not putting my body on the line to give those animals a thing.

  39. #39
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    Because there's like 20 other guys on the roster they like, and would like to see get the opportunities that Roman has gotten? They hate Roman, not every single wrestler on the roster. Notice that not every match got the reaction that the Roman match got. There was no hijacking during Rusev's match, for instance. Dismissing all of this as fans just being cute is silly and disingenuous. There are plenty of people on the WWE roster that get through matches and programs without crowd hijacking. Why does it only happen to Roman? Yes, this time it happened to Seth, but there were mitigating factors (such as the match being a ramshackle case of booking). There's been like another 12 weeks where the crowd was totally into Seth's matches, and pretty much resurrected his floundering career, by reacting vocally and positively to his matches. He went from being in a downward spiral into the most over guy on the roster because the audience got into his matches.

    They tried something and it didn't work, it's not the end of the world. Due to their own antagonistic relationship with their own audience, it means when they screw up, the crowd will probably overreact. That's their own doing.


    There's also the argument (which I buy) that a lot of the WWE audience are the most hardcore of hardcore people, whose life is wrestling. They'll watch no matter what you do, but they'll let you know when they don't like it.

  40. #40
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    The crowd hijack was in no way reflective of the bout's quality, which is an untruth that has gathered steam as those who didn't care for the match have adopted a separate issue to try and 'prove' what remains an opinion.

    Outside of the last ten seconds of every minute the crowd were fully engaged with the match. That's empirically demonstrable. They only disengaged when the company took the clock off the screen, turning the bit of fun into an issue. The fans revolted. Once the clock reappeared, again barring the last ten seconds of a minute, the crowd immediately re-engaged with the match. Simply watching it back reveals this.

    This was fans being fans, and nothing to do with the match quality. Not liking the match, fine. Not liking it and using an unrelated issue to try and prove a subjective view point I find irksome though.

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