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Thread: NXT UK

  1. #1

    NXT UK

    The new United Kingdom show was just announced and we are getting more titles.

    The show will feature a men’s division, women’s division and tag team division, with new belts being introduced for the latter two.

    I’m looking forward to another Network-only option. Definitely won’t be weekly though.
    Last edited by comfortablynumb; 06-18-2018 at 05:34 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member 205 Clive's Avatar
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    I was just about to start a thread for this. Glad I found it before double posting!

    Yes, this is something I'm really excited about, especially the Women's division.

    With it looking like it won't be a weekly show, I'm guessing the talent will have a similar contract to the WWE UK Division stars, in that they can still take independent bookings?

  3. #3
    The Brain
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    Interesting that it's billed as NXT. Is that because:

    A. It'll be another "developmental" show that doesn't actually develop new talent but does allow for existing indy guys to transition to the main roster.
    B. They think NXT is a better drawing brand for the UK Indy fans than a straight up WWE brand.
    C. Triple H angled to get his fingerprints on it.
    D. All of the above.

  4. #4
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    Could be all of the above, I think its to get the established British talent they have on more shows and have it make more sense when the UK title is defended on Takeover.

  5. #5
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Generally speaking they do think they are developing the talent though, right? Even if not at a simple level they think they're learning to work their existing stuff in with the 'house style'....

    I've got the feeling C is the biggest example of this. Vince McMahon could have basically got a TV show on here anytime he wanted over the past twenty years and there's never been a hint of interest. Since Hunter has stepped up his role we've seen so much more of our stuff. I suspect that his longstanding relationship (not 100% sure it's what you'd call a bona fide friendship but there's a lot of respect there) with Regal and the stuff that Regal taught him about the British style while they were teaming in WCW probably helps in instilling an interest for him that McMahon just doesn't have, and maybe even doesn't get.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  6. #6
    The Brain
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    Hm, I never really thought about it that way. I figured it was just that HHH saw an untapped market that Vince always considered too small to try to capture. WWE is already big in the UK, this feels like more of an attempt to snag UK indy fans specifically. But yeah, could definitely have to do with Regal too, I didn't realize they were friends but that's pretty cool.

  7. #7
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    I'm not really bothered why it's happening. I'm just excited it is. I think this could prove to be a big hit, and I'm fascinated to see how it's relationship with NXT USA evolves in particular. I've heard Trips mention a territory style system, and that makes a lot of sense to me.

    Ultimately though it increases the chances of watching new wrestling at a reasonable hour here. That alone is massively welcome!

  8. #8
    Senior Member 205 Clive's Avatar
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    So would this be the best place to discuss night 1 of thr UKCT from last night then?

    Personally thought it was a great show in and of itself. Some decent matches, but a few interesting stories happened that has me hoping they are touched on again whenever the NXT UK show starts proper.

    I won't post spoilers for the time being, but happy to discuss.

  9. #9
    The Brain
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    It's an interesting mix of guys they've brought in for this tournament. It's not quite the best of the best but like the CWC there are enough heavy hitters to carry the thing. Particularly glad Ligero got a look, always had a lot of fun with that guy. I used to be VERY high on Travis Banks but I've come down on him just a little, still a great talent though. I know Zack Gibson is meant to be a big deal of some kind but I've actually never seen him wrestle, what are people's impression of him?

  10. #10
    Senior Member 205 Clive's Avatar
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    Travis Banks was admittedly not one of my favourites in this tournament. He was booked strongly and considered a favourite, but I feel there are many more compelling characters in the division at present.

    I liked what I saw of Gibson. I was under thr impression that the sheer fact that UK wrestlers had their own special, that everyone would automatically be cheered. But he was booed from the off. Shows just how hated he is, which he plays off very well.

    Gibson's move set is also different. He does this helter-skelter snap suplex which is quite the game changer. His finisher is a torqued shoulder submission which was protected quite well throughout. I'm always in favour of tournaments where a strong submission becomes part of the narrative.

  11. #11
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    Well that was quite the fun two nights of wrestling.

    I loved how the locality of Gibson in particular played into the crowds reaction, there was a big South v North vibe. I hadn't seen Gibson before this match and I was very impressed by him although I am waiting for someone to just start punching him in the face with their free arm when they are in that submission. I really enjoyed his match with Pete Dunne. Dunne is really playing the face role now, got beat down lots and I feel like he has toned down his viciousness a tad so it is slightly more friendly. Will be interesting to see how long he holds onto that beautiful UK belt.

    With the other matches I was very surprised that Moustache Mountain won the tag titles, will be interesting to see if that means they appear on US NXT as well as UK NXT or if the titles are now exclusive to the UK and the US have to wait for a chance to win it back. Can't say I enjoyed either of the Undisputed team matches on either night as much I did the Oney Lorcan and Danny Burch series (including the three man with Dunne) however they were still fun matches.

    Did we know of any LOP Brits in attendance?

  12. #12
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    I donít know anything about British wrestling seeing as how Iím a Yank and all. But Iím watching a Zach Gibson/Rey Mysterio match now, and the pre-match promo Gibson cut while walking to the ring... wow. Makes me want to check out more of his stuff.

  13. #13
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Just a reminder for anyone interested in this stuff that the next batch of NXT UK shows are in around a month's time - from Plymouth and Liverpool, if anyone is in the area.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  14. #14
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I am behind on NXT and haven't got around to this yet. But I'll give it a bump to remind people of it's existence....

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  15. #15
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    It's been really fun so far, has the show. Burch Vs Dunne this week was excellent

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    Hearing reports that most if not all contracted WWE UK Talent now can't work local UK promotions anymore. Getting a pay raise from WWE, not sure how much.

  17. #17
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    If I were a cynic I'd say that they are trying to kill off all the competition....

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  18. #18
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    The reason I've read is they found out about injuries that happened outside a WWE ring and I have to call bullshit on that because injuries can happen at anytime.

  19. #19
    Super Moderator Team Farrell's Avatar
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    They aren't trying to kill the UK indy scene. They're protecting their investment. They're paying these guys in order to start up a territory with tapings, etc. The US NXT guys don't get to go work anywhere else but EVOLVE, and we'll see if RevPro or Progress have a similar deal with WWE in the future.

    I can't blame them in the slightest. Some indies use rings that are, frankly, sketchy as fuck. MLW lets contracted talent go off and do whatever they want and just lost two guys to injuries this weekend -- one in an MMA fight and the other to an elbow injury. Some kid I'd never heard of snapped his leg in two on that same card that Arquette got fucked up on.

    Injuries happen, especially when you're dealing with companies that are, in a lot of cases, operating on a shoestring budget that maybe gets directed toward making sure that their production quality can hold up to their competitors more often than upkeep on their rings. On top of that, there's nobody on these cards to tell people "no" (half the time if you're the "WWE Talent" you'd be considered the person everyone is going to listen to), so there's nothing to stop someone like Mark Andrews from deciding to kill himself with an unnecessary dive in front of 75 people.

    They're doing what they need to do. If an injury happens in WWE, it happens but at least on their own cards WWE knows everything is up to their safety standards.

    It's not bullshit. Injuries can happen anywhere, but if I'm paying these guys enough to live off of to work on my shows, planning around them, and they get hurt because someone didn't upkeep their ring properly or couldn't be bothered to tell a guy that a flip dive through seven tables wasn't a good choice, I'm out the time and money invested in them over something that I had no control over.

    EDIT: Plus, if these guys get hurt on an outside card, they get jack shit. If they're hurt on a WWE card, WWE covers them. If they're hurt on a Progress card, they get a handshake and well wishes on Twitter.

  20. #20
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Farrell View Post
    and we'll see if RevPro or Progress have a similar deal with WWE in the future.
    Don't see RevPro doing that given their NJPW connections but Progress are well on the way to being in that kind of position already.

    But while it might not be a deliberate act, but the WWE have taken on a huge amount of talent of the more popular talent here recently - and it is hard to imagine it not having a detrimental effect on a lot of promotions.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  21. #21
    The Brain
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    I actually thought PROGRESS was already firmly in the WWE umbrella. I'd be surprised if talent isn't still able to work there. Jordan Devlin already confirmed they can work OTT and I've heard wXw will be available as well, so that's something.

    Coach has a point about protecting their investment and WWE has a right to do whatever's within their power to a point. But it does seem at least a little predatory for WWE to help elevate certain talents they're interested in for the past few years, all the while stating more than once that those talents would be free to keep working elsewhere under the NXT UK contracts, and then suddenly shutting the door on that as soon as they want to lock in the most valuable people. Could really put some other promoters in a bind if they've come to depend on those people who are now suddenly unavailable, though they probably should have known better than to rely on anyone associated with WWE anyway.

    I think the scene is strong enough to survive and hopefully we see some fresh talent elevated, as opposed to everyone starting to book freakin' Bram again.

  22. #22
    I'm kinda shocked they signed WALTER but it looks like he got a deal on his own terms. From the little I've seen he's awesome and brutal in the ring.

  23. #23
    The Brain
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    WALTER said very plainly he doesn't want to leave Germany as his home base right now, so based on that I'm guessing he signed a NXT UK deal that would let him work that brand while still appearing in wXw/PROGRESS/OTT/EVOLVE and whoever else gets the WWE stamp of approval. I do think WALTER could succeed on a high level in WWE but he could also get lost in the shuffle like everyone else, so if he wants to hedge his bets it's probably smart. Very curious what his 2019 looks like, I think he has a strong case for being the best in the world in 2018 but not sure how that translates to whatever WWE wants him to do.

  24. #24
    Super Moderator Team Farrell's Avatar
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    So according to the main page, it's just the top NXT UK guys that they don't want working elsewhere, which is fair -- they're investing in them. It does say that they don't want their contracted guys working ROH, NJPW, Impact, LU or other contracted talent which threw me a little.

    I assume it's to discourage some of the companies from booking their guys entirely (they can't book "dream matches" with these NXT UK guys).

    From what I read WALTER is willing to work the US NXT brand, but he's not willing to relocate. He'd be willing to fly in for the few days of tapings at a time and fly in for the Takeover shows, but he's not leaving Europe. Must say something about what they see in him if they signed him anyway.

  25. #25
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    OK that's going to change things a little. Might just free up a bit of space for talent in the next level down, especially in places like Futureshock or GPW.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  26. #26
    Super Moderator Team Farrell's Avatar
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    I get that these guys are names on the UK scene, and that's why promotions want to book them, and not having them on your shows, as performers that fans have become accustomed to seeing, could sting a little.

    But I've never understood the concept of a company like Defiant paying all these top level US indy guys to come in and pop houses. It's diminishing returns, and gets to the point where you can't put a body in the building without an outside name. I've seen it happen around here where promotions keep bringing in names and they draw 500-700+ with a decent name, but they become reliant because when they don't have one they can't put 90 people into their show.

  27. #27
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Y'know there's a bit of a divide between companies that do that and those who rely on more local talent. You see people who run shows around larger areas that always have visiting stars, but there is a smaller (but probably more sustainable) model using mostly British guys that run the same venues every couple of months and probably rely on a committed crowd with a greater mix of people.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  28. #28
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    You guys are leaving out the most important part of this whole thing. It's not just restricting the talent from where they can work, it's that they're now restricting promotions, even the ones they are working with, from who they can bring in. Because these top tier guys can't work with anyone from outside the NXT UK bubble anymore, that effectively means Progress, ICW, OTT, wXw and so on can't bring in outsiders, unless they sign with WWE. You can't do Will Ospreay vs. Tyler Bate, Zack Sabre Jr. vs. Pete Dunne, Mark Andrews vs. Mark Haskins and so on anymore; those matches are gone with WWE's new mandate. That's the biggest takeaway that everyone has lost sight of. Making the top stars of the UK brand is certainly a big thing, but it's the repercussions from the decision that will have the lasting impact.

    It's unfortunate and for the short term not a good thing for the UK scene. I understand it's not WWE's job to protect it and I'm not going to fault any wrestler that makes the decision to make any sort of career move they feel is for the best, but that doesn't mean I or anyone else has to sit here and say this is a good thing. Cause it isn't. Frankly I think WWE's biggest problem here though is that they flat out lied about their intentions. William Regal and Triple H both have said in the past this sort of thing would not happen and it's clear now they did not act in good faith towards anyone, including the promotions they're working with. I don't feel too much sympathy for the fans and promoters who bought it when it was clear WWE would do this (especially Progress owner Jim Smallman, who is pretty much Gabe Sapolsky if Gabe was British and somehow even dumber), but it still doesn't change that WWE acted in bad faith. They should've just announced they were doing a UK thing and left it at that, instead of promising stuff they were never going to deliver.


  29. #29
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Well for me the biggest takeaway was that I thought about a lot of the mid-level promotions (especially the ones near me) and about how they might not be able to survive if everyone was pulled from their shows. Restricting that just to the top guys who already have hype lessens the effect on them, and that takes away most of my worries.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  30. #30
    Super Moderator Team Farrell's Avatar
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    But they did announce that they were doing a UK thing. From the first UK tournament, they made it clear that they were trying to start something there and get it on TV. It just took over a year.

    No promotions are being told they can't book outside talent, just that WWE contracted guys can't work those outside talent. If anything, that's better for the local guys who aren't contracted to get the opportunity to step up and work with a Pete Dunn and another local guy on the same card can get the opportunity to work ZSJ. For the guys, that's more opportunity to show themselves off now that the promotions can't just get buy booking "dream matches".

    I don't see how WWE acted in bad faith. They let guys work for indy companies, they let them work these dream matches, they let them do basically whatever the hell they wanted until they had their promotion started up and even then let them keep working indies until guys started showing up to the PC with injuries that they hadn't told anyone about. It was only then that they reigned it in a little. Maybe some people took Triple H and Regal at their word that they'd "never" restrict talent, but I don't see that as them going back on their word -- they're reacting accordingly to new information.

    And this is coming from a guy who has had Impact and ROH pull scheduled, advertised talent at the last second for more bullshit reasons than because their guys are getting hurt on outside shows and they want that to stop.

  31. #31
    The Brain
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    Definitely sucks even more if WWE affiliated promotions can't book any outside talent. What's the source on that, Cult? Hadn't heard that before, hoping maybe it isn't true because I don't see how those companies could survive using only WWE UK guys, most of them are totally dependent on bringing in international talent for dream matches. The biggest exception would be wXw, which operates about 90% with a dedicated roster of homegrown guys, and I can't see WWE signing the whole roster just to keep the partnership.

    Coach, I get your point that WWE is looking to protect the guys they're investing in, but suddenly changing the deal they made midstream has to look a little bit like bad faith. I get those other companies have done the same thing to smaller promotions, but I'm assuming those were one offs and not a total ban on working with you?

  32. #32
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    I don't know if there's an outright "ban" on bringing in outside talent in the traditional sense mizfan, but there is a ban on WWE contracted talent working against non WWE contracted talent for promotions like Progress and the works. Everyone who has reported on this has said as much. And that's where, by default, there is a ban because the top stars of of Progress are mainly WWE contracted workers. If they can only work with guys under similar deals than it pretty much restricts those talents from working with guys like Ospreay, Sabre, Haskins and others who are signed with New Japan or strictly independent. There's really no point to bringing those guys in and, much like we saw with Impact pulling LAX from Evolve yesterday, it's likely other promotions won't want their talent working these shows either given what WWE just did. It pretty much nukes any cross promoting or cooperation unless it involves WWE and it's partners and it depletes the rosters for a lot of these promotions. It's not completely removing people because, as Prime pointed out, some of the lower card guys aren't having their contracts change, but what does anyone think will happen once they start getting steam? WWE will just scoop them up and slowly there will be fewer and fewer talents available.

    I'm fed up with the people defending WWE here or acting like fans don't care about the wrestlers missing the point. We all understand why WWE is doing this and no one is faulting the talent from taking these deals; they need to do what's best for them and their families. That doesn't mean that WWE locking up all this talent with the option to then do the same later on is good for wrestling though. The UK scene will be fine for right now but people seem to forget that talent isn't infinite; we saw that back in the 80's when WWE and NWA/JCP/WCW signed everyone and the territories eventually disappeared. We're on our way to the same thing happening here and, I'm sorry, I can understand why people don't want to see that. I don't want to see that. And to make matters worse, the WWE did lie about this, no matter how Coach or any other WWE apologist wants to spin it. This promotion has been known for several years and that entire time you had either Triple H or William Regal assuring people that this sort of thing wouldn't happen, that WWE wouldn't restrict these guys even after the promotion got off the ground and so on. They both lied. Spin it however you want, but they did.


  33. #33
    Super Moderator Team Farrell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cult Icon View Post
    I don't know if there's an outright "ban" on bringing in outside talent in the traditional sense mizfan, but there is a ban on WWE contracted talent working against non WWE contracted talent for promotions like Progress and the works. Everyone who has reported on this has said as much. And that's where, by default, there is a ban because the top stars of of Progress are mainly WWE contracted workers.
    Then it's time for Progress to start elevating non-WWE guys. Use those WWE guys to make up-and-coming talents look better, let them showcase themselves with NJPW/ROH talent and let them get over.

    If they can only work with guys under similar deals than it pretty much restricts those talents from working with guys like Ospreay, Sabre, Haskins and others who are signed with New Japan or strictly independent. There's really no point to bringing those guys in and, much like we saw with Impact pulling LAX from Evolve yesterday, it's likely other promotions won't want their talent working these shows either given what WWE just did.
    The point in bringing those guys in is, and should always have been, to elevate the local level guys. It serves nobody but maybe the promoter's wallet to book name vs name on your card. But it gives some of these guys who aren't already getting international exposure an opportunity to get recognized and elevated if they work with the outside talent.

    I'm fed up with the people defending WWE here or acting like fans don't care about the wrestlers missing the point. We all understand why WWE is doing this and no one is faulting the talent from taking these deals; they need to do what's best for them and their families. That doesn't mean that WWE locking up all this talent with the option to then do the same later on is good for wrestling though.
    It's independent wrestling. It'll survive. They might be forced to reevaluate business strategies in the short term, they might be forced to scale back somewhat until they rebuild stars, but this isn't going to nuke the UK scene. I don't have time for the headache of worrying about what's "good for the UK scene". If it's producing good content, it doesn't matter what three letters are attached to it.

    Develop more stars. Keep using the NJPW/ROH guys and the guys that catch on big regionally. The North American indy scene isn't dead, and we've been dealing with this exact same thing for decades. There's only so much talent WWE can sign, and there's always going to be guys who hit it big and opt not to sign. The scene needs to keep developing talent, and hopefully with this idea that it's suddenly a lot more reasonable to believe that they can make it to WWE, even more talented people will want to become involved in the scene.

    The UK scene will be fine for right now but people seem to forget that talent isn't infinite; we saw that back in the 80's when WWE and NWA/JCP/WCW signed everyone and the territories eventually disappeared. We're on our way to the same thing happening here and, I'm sorry, I can understand why people don't want to see that. I don't want to see that.
    The industry today is completely different than when WWE swallowed up the territories. The big death knell for the territories was WWE buying up the TV slots. When they couldn't air on TV, they died out. Today, so many companies are online focused, there are 500x as many TV stations to get on. WWE didn't snap up every star that there was and drive these companies out of business.

    And to make matters worse, the WWE did lie about this, no matter how Coach or any other WWE apologist wants to spin it. This promotion has been known for several years and that entire time you had either Triple H or William Regal assuring people that this sort of thing wouldn't happen, that WWE wouldn't restrict these guys even after the promotion got off the ground and so on. They both lied. Spin it however you want, but they did.
    WWE didn't lie about anything. I'm not a WWE apologist, I'm not "spinning" anything. I'm a realist who recognizes that just because you say something today, doesn't mean that you should be held to it for eternity no matter what changes. I don't expect everything to be sunshine and roses, and I don't expect anyone to look out for anyone but themselves -- least of all "the scene".

    WWE took new information, and reevaluated their position. Guys were showing up to the PC with undisclosed injuries. You want to blame someone for all this? Blame the promotions using shoddy equipment and not being willing to tell their stars "no". Blame the guys not calling the office to tell them they got hurt, or slowing down a bit to make sure they don't get hurt.

    If I tell my girlfriend that I love her and I'd never break up with her, only to break up with her after she goes behind my back, crashes my car and doesn't tell me, I didn't lie to her. I took new information -- she steals my car and crashes it -- and reevaluated my position.

    The world isn't black and white. Not everything that WWE says and does is with nefarious intent. They said something that was true, they weren't going to pull their talents from working shows. Then people started getting hurt so they changed their position. It can't be held against them that their position changes when presented with new information.

  34. #34
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    I think a better way they could have said it is, once we get NXT UK going, there will be restrictions on talent. Maybe that shies people away but if you're invested in certain talent, why would you let them work elsewhere and get hurt on other shows when you already having guys getting hurt on your own shows? Also, why promote other promotions stars by letting them wrestle your guys when you could promote that same match yourself later?

    I would have a problem with it if its found out that they told the guys this, and wrestlers weren't able to leave. I'd only do this if the contracts were up and a raise was involved which the second part was. Not sure about the contracts expiring.

    Promotions will step up with local talent and I think WWE eventually will have to scale back or they're just gonna have people signed that don't even work.

  35. #35
    The Brain
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    Come on Coach, the knowledge that a wrestler might get injured on the indy circuit is new information to the WWE? That's pretty thin. I don't know if WWE reps were sincere in the past and simply re-evaluated their policies or if this was the plan from the start, but I don't think it's unreasonable either way to have expected them to be more up front about the fact that they might change things up with very little notice.

    Thanks for the extra info Cult, I was misunderstanding what you were saying a bit at first. Guess all I can do is keep watching and supporting the wrestling I enjoy.

  36. #36
    Super Moderator Team Farrell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizfan View Post
    Come on Coach, the knowledge that a wrestler might get injured on the indy circuit is new information to the WWE? That's pretty thin. I don't know if WWE reps were sincere in the past and simply re-evaluated their policies or if this was the plan from the start, but I don't think it's unreasonable either way to have expected them to be more up front about the fact that they might change things up with very little notice.
    It's not that it's new knowledge, or something that they didn't think possible, it's that it started actually happening. It went from a risk that they were willing to take in good faith to a reality. And hey, maybe it was just that Wolfgang rolled his ankle on an indy show, didn't tell anyone and couldn't do drills at the PC Monday morning. In a vacuum it's no big deal, but when there's big time money on the line, you start to look at it and say "what if it's not a rolled ankle next time, what if it's a broken neck?"

    It's really easy to look at WWE as a movie villain who does things with the sole intent of hurting others. Indy companies have done a very good job of creating the "small struggling promotion vs big bad corporate machine" narrative and that is a part of why people buy in so hard to some of these companies. It's easy to believe that they lied in this convoluted plan to trick the local promotions and pull the rug out from everyone a year later and tank the entire scene so that NXT UK would be the only brand in all of Europe.

    But this isn't a movie. In real life the simplest answer is usually the correct one. So yeah, do I believe that WWE lied 18 months or whatever ago when they first held the UK tournament and started the ball rolling to get NXT UK underway with a secret plan to trojan horse their talent into invaluable roles in indy promotions and kill them all in one fell swoop by pulling their talent? Or do I believe that they had no intention of pulling their talent and were happy with the status quo until some guys started turning up hurt to work after being on indy shows over the weekend, and they decided that maybe allowing their top guys -- the ones that they're investing the most money in -- to work outside dates is irresponsible and in the process decided to make the other change of not letting their contracted wrestlers work other contracted wrestlers (better to get all the unpopular decisions out of the way at the same time).

    I find one of those much easier to believe than the other. They undoubtedly knew going in that this decision would damage the brand to an extend because they know that the average UK indy wrestling fan is rabid and more likely to believe, as Cult does, that this is an evil plot on the part of WWE. Nobody in WWE wants the UK scene to fail, the only reason NXT UK is successful is because the UK scene is thriving and people want to see these guys. I'll take it one step further and say that nobody in WWE has time to care about actively trying to damage the UK scene.

    It comes down to money. At the end of the day, if WWE really wanted to damage the UK scene would they play a year long con, lying about letting people work indy shows, or would they just dip in to some of that sweet, sweet FOX money and make Smallman and Quildan offers that they couldn't possibly refuse to purchase the indy scene?

    They made an unfortunate decision. They aren't movie villains. I think that people have allowed themselves to be worked by the "us vs them" mentality that a lot of indys generate and two decades of Vince McMahon playing an "evil mastermind" on TV. Does anyone here honestly believe that Vince McMahon is simultaneously so trapped in the WWE bubble that he has become completely detached from his fans and knows what a Revolution Pro or Progress Wrestling are?

  37. #37
    The Brain
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    The same Vince McMahon who tricked territory promoters into sending him tapes of their top stars to get them known on national TV before buying them all up when their popularity became widespread? Who could ever believe he might employed, or ok'd others, to use shady tactics!

    I get where you're coming from, Coach. If WWE's main goal was to crush the indy scene, they could do it a lot more easily. But that doesn't mean they employed the strategy they did for the exact reasons you mentioned, AND as a side benefit they knew it would kneecap smaller promotions not affiliated with them. You can say that smaller companies aren't on Vince's radar, but this is the same WWE that a couple years ago tried to get a bunch of smaller venues to become exclusive to NXT in order to shut out ROH and others. Trying to undercut other promotions has been the Vince/WWE MO for 35 years, and yeah that's just business on some level, but it's still rather shady at times.

  38. #38
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    Because WWE/Vince has a MO for these type of things, its hard for me to feel sympthy for promotions or even wrestlers when something like this happens. You can call it shady all you want but promotions should know better. Even if who they dealt with wasn't Vince.. its still WWE. Trips gets a pass cause he presents himself as a proud father to the hardcore base just trying to do what's right for the boys... Nah, he's doing what's right for WWE.

    You can be angry all you want at WWE for this tactic but end of the day, promotions/wrestlers should have known better.

    Come to think of it, Its hard for me to think those promotions that might get screwed over now don't really care cause they got buzz just from the association. There's more eyes on the British scene than ever. The Wrestlers are making more money.

    I don't think in this age of online services, watch everything you want, that local promotions are just going to die.
    Last edited by LK3185; 11-29-2018 at 03:52 PM.

  39. #39
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    The top level aren't going to go out of business. But I don't think people realise how precarious a lot of the places where the next generation will get there break are. But I guess it depends how much talent is signed to these new deals, because the top people won't work those shows often anyway.

    Wrestlers have never had it better here since the heyday of WoS, that's true, but the WWE association doesn't come without a slight drawback. Worth noting that Progress have already kinda lost some of the 'punk rock' credentials that they used to trade on.

    That alone is not going to put them out of business and they are clearly compensated for it, but it's not a picture without some clouds.

    As to the question further up I couldn't help thinking of the story of the fox and the scorpion...

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  40. #40
    The Brain
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    I don't disagree that promoters who might be hurt by this should have been more wary and forward thinking, but I still put more onus on the WWE because they have ALL the power in this kind of thing, since they're a near monopoly, plus they went out of their way to put out a message that they were making an effort to be a more open and cooperative promotion, at least on the lower levels.

    Also worth stressing that it's the promoters who aren't affiliated with WWE who will probably feel this the most. I don't think too many places will go out of business overnight but at the very least it limits some of the more interesting top possible matches we could see as fans, which is a bummer.

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