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Thread: NXT UK

  1. #41
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    For sure, Progress and RevPro aren't in any danger, it's the people playing community centres and leisure centres who have almost 100% UK talent that are the only ones who might struggle as a result.

    But that's where most people here get their start. It's not like you just train for a bit and get a gig with Progress.

    A bit less concerned about the combinations you can put together, that gets limited whenever anyone signs a deal. And y'know, if that keeps people apart it might mean there's some unspoiled matches, first-time matches, down the road.

    But yeah, much more interested to see how the places that charge 8 a ticket and feature largely local talent are affected. Would hate to see anything negative happen for them.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  2. #42
    Super Moderator Team Farrell's Avatar
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    I don't imagine those companies would be impacted much at all. They might use some of these WWE guys to help draw, but based on people I know who go over there and work for those companies, they usually run with their own in-house talents and the top level guys are like an extra bonus. Those types of companies are completely used to losing top level guys -- sometimes to WWE/Impact/etc., sometimes because they get the exposure that comes from Rev/Progress/Defiant/etc. and no longer have time or motivation to work for some of those companies -- and always recover.

    Like I said, it's more likely that these really small companies are going to have an easier time finding new trainees (and therefor a revenue stream) to break in to the business if there is now a much more realistic chance for getting signed down the line.

  3. #43
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Hey, let's hope so. It's certainly true a lot of these places have schools attached to them and aren't shy about advertising them. There's a promotion in the city here (really small) that it's easier to find info about training than it is to find out about the shows.

    If that's the way it shakes out then it'll only be those fans accusing Pete Dunne on Twitter of selling out who'll really care in the long run.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  4. #44
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    Yeah, those fans are undoubtedly ridiculous. I totally understand being disappointed on a personal level about guys signing up with WWE, but to pretend these indy wrestlers have some obligation not to make the best living they can is pretty damn selfish, not to mention unrealistic.

  5. #45
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    the Pete Dunne's of the world, at his age, he's better off in alot of ways going to WWE now and the way they feel about him, he's going to go much farther than the UK brand. People could say stay on the indies, improve your position first... but that's taking a risk that you blow your knee out and then you're forgotten.

    And if he somehow flames out in WWE, he can come back to the indy scene a much bigger star and command more money.

    If WWE is a person's dream... or they're getting more money.. I can't fault them for signing.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    For sure, Progress and RevPro aren't in any danger
    This is actually not true in Progress' case. Revolution Pro is and will be fine because they have no association with WWE and will continue to get talent from New Japan (who they have a working agreement with) in addition to the non WWE associated local talent. That's not the case for Progress. There was a report today that revealed that WWE, due to their working agreements with Progress, ICW and so on, has the option over the next several years to buy these promotions (for somewhere in the six figure range) and then scrap them so WWE doesn't have to compete with their partners. Basically if WWE starts to do tours over there more frequently then Progress will cease to exist. Who knows if it'll come to pass but no, Progress is not entirely safe and in the end this could all lead to one (or two if the same thing happens to ICW in Scotland) fewer promotions for guys to get work while the owners walk away with a decent payday.

    And that right there is the fear everyone has. People keep bringing up how awful it is that fans are treating wrestlers a certain way for signing but the reality is that the number of people doing that are minuscule and should be ignored anyway. No one reasonable, myself included, is against Pete Dunne or whoever signing with WWE. Whether it's because that was their dream, they need the cash or whatever, there are plenty of good reasons for them to make said deal and I cannot fault them for that. No one is. But just because I don't fault and understand why talent are doing that doesn't mean it's a good thing for wrestling or the UK scene. A good think for wrestling and the UK scene is for there to be as many places as possible for talent to work; a perfect world would have WWE UK, Rev Pro, Progress, World of Sport, ICW and so on and so forth. Now that we know about this clause where WWE can buy and scrap these smaller promotions, it's possible within five years all we'll have is the WWE brand, Rev Pro and...who else? All because the indies associated with WWE will be gone and, because all the major talent will be scooped up between Rev Pro and WWE, all the other indies will be either low level or nonexistent because there's no talent. Like I said yesterday; talent isn't infinite. Sooner or later, much like in the 1980's after WWE and WCW wiped out the territories or the 2000's when WCW and ECW died, there's not going to be enough viable talent to replace the holes left by the guys signed up and it will be a problem.


  7. #47
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    Talent isn't infinte but its not the 80s where all the talent was gobbled up and WWF was able to be the only content widely available besides Crockett. A marketplace where fans had to pick. You can watch wrestling from Japan, Mexico and others live due to the internet. That's not going to go away. I also think WWE has been over extending themselves in trying to get the network to be a certain place that they've over saturation of their product. I mean, not every fan watches every piece of WWE product. The fans that aren't watching WWE like Cult keep growing so I think their will still be promotions out there for those people.

  8. #48
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Well, when I said safe, I meant from collapse. Progress aren't going to collapse in that way. They've already taken WWE money and if they end up taking more money to be essentially subsumed within the WWE umbrella, well that's up to them I guess.

    I mean, I can see how the hardcore fans of Progress would be bothered by it, but if the promoters are compensated and the talent are still working, albeit under a different banner, it's not really as big a deal as one of the major companies collapsing. Is it 'bad' for wrestling? Yes, in comparison with having both operate as a place to go with full independence, but British wrestling would still have been in a worse place in any given year going back to the mid-1980s than it is now.

    I don't really know why that long second paragraph was a thing, because no one said anyone here was saying that, and the comment about those fans was specifically about if it plays out the way Coach said. So context was key there.

    Speaking of context, I think there are too many local factors that might not be apparent to an international audience that makes me think the pessimistic future you project there is pretty unlikely. And also, from a British perspective, it's those promotions at a mid-level that are more important overall than the top-tier anyway because they are what keeps everything flowing. And several of them survive with very few guys in the orbit we are talking about anyway.

    They are probably irrelevant to anyone outside the UK and they don't have international followings so far as I can tell but they are crucial to the overall industry here, and if they do alright the whole thing will be fine, barring a complete sea change in the attitude to wrestling here.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  9. #49
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    I really think that there's too much concern over "the scene" from some fans. "The scene" will be fine.

    No promoter on earth gets into wrestling so that they can make their "scene" better, they get in to make money. If WWE offered Progress and ICW's owners six figures to close up shop and sign some sort of non-compete, fans of "the scene" would be upset...but that's the dream, to have all the hard work, sleepless nights, stress over whether or not that building is going to be full when the bell rings pay off. Even better if it came with an offer to come aboard WWE. That's the exact same thing as giving shit to Dunne for signing with WWE.

    These promoters are business people. They're trying to make money. I'm sure Jim Smallman has no intention of running Progress forever, and at some point there has to be a desire to have an "out" to move on with his life or retire or try something new. The plan might not have originally been to do it sometime in the next five years, but if WWE came to me and told me "we want to give you six figures to shut down your promotion and you can't open another one for 10 years", I'd shake their hands, take the money and move on to my next business venture while still wrestling.

    If the people who are passionate about "the scene" are truly passionate about it, will they abandon it when Bate, Dunne, Storm, etc. are no longer allowed to be a part of it anymore and maybe Progress and ICW get bought out? Or will they keep supporting Rev Pro, whatever comes from the ashes of Progress/ICW (like ROH from ECW), and the new talents that "the scene" is trying to establish? One set of fans are truly passionate, the other got swept up in a movement and chant "you sold out" at people trying to make a living because their favourite toy isn't "theirs" anymore.

    If "the scene" is that fragile that the clearly very passionate UK fans abandon it over this, or if two promotions close and refuse to support what comes next, then "the scene" was going to burn out before too long anyway.

    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    Speaking of context, I think there are too many local factors that might not be apparent to an international audience that makes me think the pessimistic future you project there is pretty unlikely. And also, from a British perspective, it's those promotions at a mid-level that are more important overall than the top-tier anyway because they are what keeps everything flowing. And several of them survive with very few guys in the orbit we are talking about anyway.

    They are probably irrelevant to anyone outside the UK and they don't have international followings so far as I can tell but they are crucial to the overall industry here, and if they do alright the whole thing will be fine, barring a complete sea change in the attitude to wrestling here.
    What he said, but with too many extra words.

  10. #50
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    It's also worth mentioning that one thing the scene has that they didn't have in the 80s or '01 is the ability to easily make their content available. In the past TV spots were essential and very limited, but now there's no way WWE can stop promotions from posting their shows online, short of actually buying the promotion, which makes the scene a lot more resilient.

    Which isn't to say I don't have some concern about the finite talent available and promotions being crowded out down the line in other ways, but it's at least a little comforting for me.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizfan View Post
    It's also worth mentioning that one thing the scene has that they didn't have in the 80s or '01 is the ability to easily make their content available. In the past TV spots were essential and very limited, but now there's no way WWE can stop promotions from posting their shows online, short of actually buying the promotion, which makes the scene a lot more resilient.

    Which isn't to say I don't have some concern about the finite talent available and promotions being crowded out down the line in other ways, but it's at least a little comforting for me.
    Which was my point and also, I do think there will come a point for WWE that they will have too much to handle. They are turning a profit sure but relying on so many things that might not even be there in 5 to 10 years, with an audience that's not exactly growing and is getting older. Not doom and gloom for WWE but cornering every market doesn't mean that will translate into a bunch of new paying customers.. Especially the ones who are watching a certain scene to avoid WWE.

  12. #52
    The card for the first UK Takeover is shaping up. I watched the first few NXT UK shows but have forgotten to keep it up. Anybody still watching regularly?

  13. #53
    Senior Member 205 Clive's Avatar
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    I'm usually a day or so behind but, yes, I still keep up with it.

    When it was announced, I wasn't too sure they had had enough of a bedding-in period. But they've pulled it off well.

    Being a bonnie Scotsman, I've been pretty captivated with the Gallus vs British Strong Style feud. So much so that I want Dunne to lose the title on Saturday!

  14. #54
    Tyler Bate has ridiculous core strength. Great opener to Takeover so far. I love the crowd.

    EDIT: Oh shit. Nice surprise for the fans in attendance. Balor vs. his clone.

    EDIT 2: The "Are you watching Vince McMahon" song during the main event was great.
    Last edited by comfortablynumb; 01-12-2019 at 05:29 PM.

  15. #55
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    That's a show that's going to take some beating in the rest of the year.

    Also, fucking WALTER turning up at the end - NXT UK is going to be serious going forward.

  16. #56
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    It was a very special night so early in the brand's existence.

    The show was very much of a quality that I've grown accustomed to in the last couple years' American Takeovers.

    The tag match was sensational. Zack Gibson and James Drake are so intelligent in their equaliser tactics.

  17. #57
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    I watched that whole show and it was the first NXT UK show I'd seen in a while. NXT, as a whole, suffers from the bit of the NJPW issue where every match in the upper portion of the card has to be this hard-hitting epic.

    That women's match got real sloppy at the end. Toni and Ripley were both gassed (and that's not a shot at them, they went full out for 15 minutes) and stuff started to really not look good by the end.

    On top of that, Storm reversed Ripley's finish three times (maybe more?). She was selling like Ripley was murdering her, but also seemed to have an answer for absolutely everything Ripley threw at her. It was so weird and the psychology just didn't jive for me.

    If they'd given it four or five minutes less and it ended on the first reversal of Ripley's finish when she turned it into a cross body, it would have been so much better. Ripley looks like a god for crushing the much lauded Toni Storm for basically ten straight minutes, Storm still get the win and doesn't completely make Ripley's finish look ineffectual, and now with the flash surprise win you have a reason for a rematch.

    I don't need to see a rematch, or much of anything more from Ripley. I got the story, no matter how badly Ripley kills Storm, it doesn't matter because Storm's got the answer to her finish and will beat her anyway.

    It just was not a well laid out match at all, and that extra five minutes could have been given to the No DQ match which kind of felt like it never really got out of second gear (but colour me impressed as hell with the power of Eddie Dennis).

  18. #58
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    The Women's match was the least engaging for me. I think it's that I'm not that interested in Toni Storm. She's a very crisp wrestler and should be applauded for that. But for me there are other women who engage me more. Ripley, Dawn (probably just a compatriot bias), and Jinny.

    I do think though that the No DQ match was the perfect length. One of the best no-rules matches I've seen in quite a while.

  19. #59
    WALTER's entire presence from his entrance music, to his posture, to the fans chanting along - is awesome. I've heard a lot about him and it's cool to see him almost weekly now. An excellent addition to NXT UK.

  20. #60
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    This is the only WWE brand I can't seem to get into. I love parts of it, and WALTER Vs Dunne was the best part of the Mania Takeover, and Piper vs Rhea is probably my second favorite women's angle of the year (behind Becky vs Ronda/Charlotte). But I find everyone not named Dunne, WALTER, Rhea or Piper to be very bland.

    Is anyone else having trouble enjoying NXT UK?

  21. #61
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Yeah, I never got into it. I don't know if it was any of the people per se, but something about the feel of it never appealed to me and I gave it up a while back.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  22. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by PEN15v2
    This is the only WWE brand I can't seem to get into. I love parts of it, and WALTER Vs Dunne was the best part of the Mania Takeover, and Piper vs Rhea is probably my second favorite women's angle of the year (behind Becky vs Ronda/Charlotte). But I find everyone not named Dunne, WALTER, Rhea or Piper to be very bland.

    Is anyone else having trouble enjoying NXT UK?
    It can be very bland though action-packed. Lack of character for many of the wrestlers might be why.

    Twitter: @libsuperstar

  23. #63
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I think if I was forced to try and put my finger on it I'd say that the appeal of NXT was that it felt like a bit of a throwback at times, an updated version of the shows I used to like (far more than anything else I've seen), while NXT UK felt like pretty much every Indy I'd ever seen. That sense probably needs more refinement to be 100% accurate but it's close enough that you'll get the gist of what I was feeling.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  24. #64
    Walter vs. Tyler Bate was awesome. I only saw that match and the Cesaro match and it was high quality. They just need to keep building that midcard.

  25. #65
    What a high note to end the show on! I like how Walter just punished Bate in the beginning.

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  26. #66
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    100%- WALTER vs Tyler Bate has been MOTY to date. What an AMAZING match! So, so, so much better than any of the Gargano vs Cole matches. Better than anything on NXT this year. Better than anything on main roster this year. What an absolute privilege to watch.

    If I had 1 slight gripe, it is that there was probably 2 kick outs that stretched suspension of disbelief. But seriously, what an awesome match. And I LOVED the finish. So, so perfect. Ughhh. I'm gushing. This kind of match is why I stick around wrestling. Cause every once in a while you find a true gem of a match, or segment, or character work. Both guys killed it.


  27. #67
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    Really? I...kind of hated it. It was twice as long as it needed to be and completely overblown.

  28. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    Really? I...kind of hated it. It was twice as long as it needed to be and completely overblown.
    At about 42 minutes I could agree it was a bit long, could have probably shaved 10 minutes and still kept the narrative, but it told a story throughout that actually fit the feud WALTER has had with Tyler, Trent, and Pete Dunne. Tyler used moves from both guys in the match as an homage to men WALTER beat- his personal friends. WALTER dominated a lot, though it showed how resilient and driven Tyler was to beat WALTER on a personal level. Tyler's offensive bursts in spots were pretty awesome (I am blown away by this guys core strength! I'd say he is as strong or stronger than Cena, pound for pound, tbh). And the end was so satisfying from a story point- it got to a point where it wasn't some top finisher that ended it, but rather a basic move because both men were dead tired. I loved that. I loved how at the beginning WALTER towered over Tyler, but by the end they seemed nearly the same size due to the story throughout the match, and WALTER'S fatigue. And the finish... damn it was so, so good. The crowd reaction showed that it was a perfect ending. I don't want to spoil it, but it was the perfect outcome when you think about the feud, the matches story, and the crowd reactions. Hell even the segment right after the match, and the commentary added to the match itself.


    Maybe I am too used to crummy WWE main roster matches, but this match felt like it was worth the time invested. It felt like the end to a proper group rivalry/feud.


  29. #69
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    The only issue I have with Kleck's statement is that the best match of the year is a tie between Hijo del Vikingo vs. Laredo Kid from AAA's Monterrey show in June and Dr. Wagner Jr. vs. Blue Demon Jr. from Triplemania. Those were the two best and I'll no arguments for any other matches unless someone else used a hammer like Demon did.


  30. #70
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    We are talking wrestling matches, not masked gymnastics. (obvious button pushing is obvious, I know.)

  31. #71
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    Only one of them had DA FLIPZ (see the gif)! The other one was an old school brawl that featured a man breaking another man's hand with a hammer and then several Fujiwar Armbar spots to work over said hand/arm. Even Coach liked it I believe! And the last time we agreed on anything was Omega-Okada Uno.


  32. #72
    Super Moderator Team Farrell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cult Icon View Post
    Only one of them had DA FLIPZ (see the gif)! The other one was an old school brawl that featured a man breaking another man's hand with a hammer and then several Fujiwar Armbar spots to work over said hand/arm. Even Coach liked it I believe! And the last time we agreed on anything was Omega-Okada Uno.
    Yep. Awesome match. Everything I want out of wrestling.

    However, sorry Cult, add any Spanish Fly spot to the list of things I'm completely over. After seeing people I know gushing over a match from last weekend only to see the spot they all singled out as "incredible" be both guys stopping what they were doing to make eye contact before running full speed at one another to do a well-executed Spanish Fly, I was out on the move. If synchronized flips are what makes good wrestling, I'm happy to participate in bad wrestling.

    /rant

    Wagner vs Demon was off the charts, though. Better than Walter vs Bate. I found myself checking out at points during that match. It was really good, but the 42 minute length is what got me.

    The same thing I've said about AEW shows. Don't do a 40 minute match when 30 will do.

  33. #73
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    I guess I could revise my statement to say I firmly believe WALTER vs Tyler Bate is the front runner, to date, as the MOTY across all WWE programming. I honestly havent had much of a chance to watch stuff outside of that umbrella (mainly due to time constraints- I love context, so diving into new feds takes some serious effort on my part to brush up), though I am down to watch if there are links. I definitely trust Cults wrestling tastes though.


  34. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Farrell View Post
    Yep. Awesome match. Everything I want out of wrestling.

    However, sorry Cult, add any Spanish Fly spot to the list of things I'm completely over. After seeing people I know gushing over a match from last weekend only to see the spot they all singled out as "incredible" be both guys stopping what they were doing to make eye contact before running full speed at one another to do a well-executed Spanish Fly, I was out on the move. If synchronized flips are what makes good wrestling, I'm happy to participate in bad wrestling.

    /rant

    Wagner vs Demon was off the charts, though. Better than Walter vs Bate. I found myself checking out at points during that match. It was really good, but the 42 minute length is what got me.

    The same thing I've said about AEW shows. Don't do a 40 minute match when 30 will do.
    hear hear
    Last edited by PEN15v2; 6 Days Ago at 02:38 PM.

  35. #75
    Super Moderator Team Farrell's Avatar
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    I mean, to be fair, what really makes a match of the year or even a "good" match? Because for me personally, I'll take watching Minoru Suzuki stiff the living hell out Okada, or Ishii pummeling anyone on the planet over flips and dives any day.

  36. #76
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    It's definitely subjective. I personally prefer a match that tells a story, and has a more old school/realistic approach. The basic move finish after a long, grueling match gives it a sense of realism to me (not necessary, but a wonderful touch in 2019)- flip of the cap to WWWF style. I mean if you were grappling someone for 30-40 straight minutes what do you think you could realistically do movewise at that point? Probably not a Super Hurricanrana Bomb. Probably a basic move. You'd be too tired to get fancy.

    A developing match psychology, good selling, good timing. Big spots should mean something.

    It's kind of like sports for me- I prefer a good defensive, strategic, low scoring game any day of the week. Plus the big bursts of offense stick out more as an emotional outburst.

    I find myself wanting this more and more as the Gargano style/spot fest/false finish fests take over the wrestling world.
    Last edited by Kleckamania; 6 Days Ago at 02:51 PM.


  37. #77
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    I'd say the same thing in reverse; I'd rather watch Hijo del Vikingo and Laredo Kid come up with wild stuff I've never seen before than guys pummeling each other, even though I do enjoy guys pummeling each other.

    Part of the reason wrestling fandom is so toxic is that there's way too many fans who think wrestling can only be done a certain way. It can only be good if its worked slow, it can only be good if it has flips, it can only be good if it has no flips, it can only be good if its a brawl, it can only be good with X amount of kick outs, it can only be this and that or this and that. It's such an unhealthy mindset that limits what you actually enjoy when you should be trying to enjoy as much as possible. At the end of the day I want to see everything; I want to see fun brawling, I want to see story driven drama, I want to see wild hardcore bouts, I want to see tests of strength, I want to see technical wrestling, I want to strong style and hell yes, I want to see DA FLIPZ and lucha libre. Wrestling needs that variety because a) not every person realistically can win a match by wrestling one way and b) because shit would be boring. If Coach had his way about the Spanish Fly spots, then the gif in my sig below doesn't happen and Laredo Kid more than likely doesn't get the notoriety to then get booked at AEW's Fyter Fest and certainly doesn't get (spoiler alert) a likely contract to sign with them. Hijo del Vikingo probably doesn't get on AEW or WWE's radar (and yes, both want him). And while I have major quibbles with how La Sombra and especially Mascara Dorada have been used in WWE, I can tell you right now WWE didn't hire them because they wanted to turn them into basic, American style wrestlers; they hired them because they could do things in the air no one else can.

    This is just a very long way of me saying that wrestling would be a lot better if everyone opened their minds that every style can work, not just one. And I just see too many people out there, on every side mind you, refusing to like something unless it fits a certain criteria. Don't make a damn criteria. Watch something, experience it and make up your mind based on how you feel. Wrestling would be a lot better off if more people did that.


  38. #78
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cult Icon View Post
    you should be trying to enjoy as much as possible.
    If you have to try to enjoy it, you don't actually enjoy it. And I'm past the point where I want to give my time and money for wrestling I don't enjoy, so I can try and like it. Because I've tried that, and honestly trying to force it doesn't get you anywhere.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  39. #79
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    With so many options available, it's VERY easy to say "no, this isn't for me" and turn it off.

  40. #80
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    And really, that's the way it's supposed to work. If a company wants your business, they'll make their product appeal to you. If they don't, they'll make do without you.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

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