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  1. #441
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    This could be a fun idea. Had a go at a few different quizzes, but could make another game out of it. Take on as many as you feel like but the idea is you play at least your own team against the benchmark set down, and as many of the rest as you feel like. Credit awarded based on beating other people at their own sides. Honour system in effect - be honest about what you scored!

    Arsenal - 117/203
    https://www.sporcle.com/games/adamst...league-players

    Aston Villa - 166/239
    https://www.sporcle.com/games/adamst...=premierleague

    Chelsea - 121/240
    https://www.sporcle.com/games/adamst...&pid=7395a713N

    Liverpool - 128/227
    https://www.sporcle.com/games/adamst...&pid=7395a713N

    Man United - 122/198
    https://www.sporcle.com/games/adamst...&pid=7395a713N

    Tottenham - 112/236
    https://www.sporcle.com/games/adamst...&pid=7395a713N

    West Ham 104/288
    https://www.sporcle.com/games/adamst...gue-players-33


    Right, that should get most of the ones that people around most often support - unless Nony wants to kill us at Cardiff in which case I'll get 4-5 on that later.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  2. #442
    Senior Member Gooner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    What we really wanna know, though, is how you got on with the hat trick quiz!

    Saw a lot of speculation on the twitterz tonight, does Rooney still get into the United team if he was on their books? Lot of people saying he probably would, even allowing for the fact he's playing at a lower level.
    I think he would get into any side bar the top 4 currently. Liverpool, Man City don't need him, Leicester are on the youth trail and so is Chelsea.


    Did the Arsenal quiz. Got 136/203. Biggest casualty was forgetting Paul Merson, David O'Leary (shameful, our appearance record holder!), David Platt and Denis Suarez, who considering was a recent signing, says a lot as to how bad he was.
    Last edited by Gooner; 4 Weeks Ago at 06:23 AM.



  3. #443
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    I'll get to the quizzes at lunchtime! I imagine there'll be a few weird and wonderful players in the hattrick one. I'm sure Marcus Stewart must have one.
    Last edited by Oliver; 4 Weeks Ago at 07:08 AM.

  4. #444
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gooner View Post
    Did the Arsenal quiz. Got 136/203. Biggest casualty was forgetting Paul Merson, David O'Leary (shameful, our appearance record holder!), David Platt and Denis Suarez, who considering was a recent signing, says a lot as to how bad he was.
    Ah, beat me! Once again though sounds like we're a mirror image, as I smashed the 1990s (even pulled some really obscure ones out of ass just by remembering their Merlin stickers) and suffered on the last five years.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  5. #445
    Senior Member Gooner's Avatar
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    Yeah that and players that had less than 10 appearances. Bit ashamed I didn't get the ones I mentioned though, I watch Merse every weekend on Sky!

    I might have a go at the others if I have time, but I definitely wont beat your tallys.



  6. #446
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I dunno, I was disappointed with a couple of mine. United, Tottenham, maybe West Ham all beatable, possibly some of the others, too? Though, I'd be interested to see if anyone can top me on the Villa (without cheating of course!)

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  7. #447
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    Got 133 on the hat-tricks quiz - admittedly, a couple of educated guesses in there. The time ran out before I could get through to the end of the 161, though - missed out on seeing three of the images, of which I'd have definitely got one.

    Biggest sadness - I didn't recognise Saha!

    EDIT: 193 on the West Ham one - bit of a rogues gallery, that. Started off just going through rubbish strikers we've had and reached 60 odd...
    Last edited by Oliver; 4 Weeks Ago at 10:16 AM.

  8. #448
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Good score!

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  9. #449
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    A lot of that score was just guessing players from clubs! Dean Holdsworth, for example, and Brian Deane.

  10. #450
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I would have tried that with the Wigan lads if I hadn't forgotten every last person to play for Wigan.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  11. #451
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    The only one I could think of was Antonio Valencia, and he definitely wasn't an answer!

    Weirdly feel like we shouldn't have lost last night - not a feeling I was expecting today going into the game. Thought that we, finally, saw some attacking plans from Moyes that work well with the players we have at that end of the pitch. Arguably, without Fabianski's mishap, we'd have gotten at least a point out of the game, and after the start of the second half I think we were good value to be 2-1 up. Haller coming on for Anderson was a misstep, in my opinion, as we lost a lot of the pace that was holding back the likes of Robinson and Alexander Arnold - they got forward a lot more once they knew they didn't have such a job to track back against Antonio and Snodgrass. I could see what the intention was, but with Bowen sat on the bench I think the better substitution would have been to bring him on for Anderson.

  12. #452
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Yeah, conversely we definitely deserved to lose our game. With you and Watford only a point behind us we've got to find something and bloody sharpish.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  13. #453
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    I'll be surprised to see you not pull away from us by April, Prime, as I think I've said before - after Southampton, we've got Arsenal, Spurs, Wolves, and Chelsea all in a row.

    That game at the end of the season between us could have a hell of a lot riding on it.

  14. #454
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I don't know, mate. We've got the League Cup Final this weekend, which could see us ship a lot of goals and be kinda demoralising.

    But even so -

    Leicester away
    Chelsea home
    Newcastle away


    I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't have any more points by April, either.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  15. #455
    Senior Member Gooner's Avatar
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    Gonna make a prediction now, that both of you stay up.

    Norwich, Bournemouth (sadly) and Brighton for me are going down. Villa to pull off the great escape with West Ham picking up some unexpected points against Spurs and Wolves.



  16. #456
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I'd rather be in Brighton's shoes than ours right now - they are two points better off and their fixtures are a little better (though not much).

    I agree Norwich are likely gone. Bournemouth's fixtures are probably as bad as ours and that gives us a glimmer of hope even if West Ham do recover.

    Weirdly Watford might be in the best position at the moment but if they aren't safe by the time they have played West Ham, they probably go down.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  17. #457
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    Watford are an odd one - they seem to have had their new manager bounce and then immediately reverted to type since beating Bournemouth.

  18. #458
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Bah. I've lost track of how many cup finals we've lost since we last won one now.

    Still, I suppose that could have been a lot worse. Hope it gives more of a lift than anything.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  19. #459
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    Wow, that Watford performance was not what I expected to see - especially after my post up there. Fair play to them, they really did a number on Liverpool.

    Is it possible that Atletico have given a 'blueprint', of sorts, for how to play against them and now other teams are picking up on it? Between ourselves and Watford I think now two teams have set up a bit like Ateltico and pushed Liverpool.

  20. #460
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    Double post, but new discussion.

    With the Premier League hall of fame being announced, which three players would you put in as the first inductees? Obviously only accepting entries who have played since football began in 1992.

  21. #461
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I'd be inclined to start only with people playing in those very early years. So a grouping like Cantona, Shearer, and Paul McGrath (as the Premier League's first PFA Player of the Year) would suit me fine.

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  22. #462
    Senior Member Gooner's Avatar
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    I'd personally expand it to include managers and inductions to 5 a year (Manager, GK, DF, MD, AT). Seems to make more sense to me than just players (and two a year I believe?). They also have to have retired and or no longer managing in the premier league.


    So based on that criteria, i'd pick Alex Ferguson, Peter Schmeichel, John Terry, Steven Gerrard, Thierry Henry.



  23. #463
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    The last three are obviously nailed on certs for one day, but I think they'd all be too recent for me to go in first. Fergie's obviously a great shout if it includes managers though, and no argument at all with Schmeichel.

    You could do five a year, and you wouldn't have all the people who deserve to go in just from the 1990s until it had been running for a decade. Cantona, Shearer, Schmeichel, Irwin, Kelly, Speed, McAllister, McGrath, Deane, Sheringham, Wright, Ferdinand, Cole, Adams, Pearce, Pallister, Fowler, Giggs, Seaman, Klinsmann, Zola....

    There you go, four years worth, all of whom deserve it, all who played in the first couple of years of the Premier League era, no managers, and on about 20 seconds thought. You can imagine what the list would be like if you actually sat down and did it properly.

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  24. #464
    Senior Member Gooner's Avatar
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    I'm probably not as eager for it to be oldies first, not saying that they aren't deserving just I don't feel you have to work from the back in this instance, I'd base it more on their impact on the Premier League as a whole at the time they were around, as well as how long they were around for. No one would doubt how good Klinsmann was for Spurs, but he spent very little time in the Premier League, compared to a Shearer, Henry or Drogba, so for me he'd be a lot further down the list. It's also a bit harder to compare to other Hall of Fames as they have been running for so much longer, whereas we have over 25 years of top players to choose from.


    Maybe they should start with a huge 20/25 induction for the first year and then 5 after that annually? That way you could definitely get a good crop of 90s and 00s players in there?
    Last edited by Gooner; 3 Weeks Ago at 06:18 AM.



  25. #465
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    I was thinking about this last night (which is where the question came from), but my issue became whether or not you restrict it to just the Premier League years. Take Michael Thomas, for example - OK, not the most glamorous of names, but if you were going to do a full Hall of Fame of the history of football he would surely eventually be due an induction, if only for the end of the 1989 season. Yet in the Premier League he had a pretty disappointing and limited 5/6 year spell at Liverpool that would most likely see him not get in.

    Do you reward the longevity of a player like Gareth Barry or David James over the shorter but more glittering Premier League careers of, I don't know, a Nicolas Anelka or something?

    And won't somebody appreciate Gary Pallister?

  26. #466
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Ahem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    You could do five a year, and you wouldn't have all the people who deserve to go in just from the 1990s until it had been running for a decade. Cantona, Shearer, Schmeichel, Irwin, Kelly, Speed, McAllister, McGrath, Deane, Sheringham, Wright, Ferdinand, Cole, Adams, Pearce, Pallister, Fowler, Giggs, Seaman, Klinsmann, Zola....


    While I don't think you have to work from the back, per se, I am in favour of a more pronounced waiting period that would rule out the Gerrard's, Lampard's, Rooney's for a few years. Prevents an attitude of 'what have you done for me lately?' creeping in.

    If you were lowering the standard to take older people then obviously there's an issue, and I'm not saying you need to get all of the 1990s guys in first. More than there are enough people who are nailed on certainties that you don't need to reach for an Henry right away.

    What you don't want is to have all the superstars in immediately, and be getting less and less impressive with each passing year. That's a good way to kill the thing.


    And I'd say eventually Barry, James and Anelka all have to go in.

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  27. #467
    Senior Member Gooner's Avatar
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    I think if it's limited to 2 a year (as it's been reported to be), it might be a moot point anyway. Someone like a Ruud van Nistelrooy, Gary Speed, or Anelka may actually never get in as there's arguably too many people in front of them, and then also new players that retire in the next few years (David Silva, Vincent Kompany, James Milner for example) will probably get more votes.



  28. #468
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    If it's only two a year it would take you the best part of 15 years to get all the United players with a strong case in. Not exaggerating.

    We've already mentioned Schmeichel, Cantona, Giggs, Pallister, Cole, Sheringham, Van Nistelrooy and Irwin. That's four years. But what about Steve Bruce, Gary Neville, David Beckham, Roy Keane, Paul Scholes, Nicky Butt, Ole Gunnar Solskjaer, Dwight Yorke, Mark Hughes, Andrei Kanchelskis, Jaap Stam, Nemanja Vidic, Rio Ferdinand, Patrice Evra, Michael Carrick, Wayne Rooney, Cristiano Ronaldo, RVP, Van der Sar....


    You don't want to overly dilute it by having loads, but I could say a case for, say, 4-5 without it being overkill.

    And the point about Silva etc., who'll be fresh in everyone's minds when they quit, makes me doubly convinced about the value of a waiting period.

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  29. #469
    Senior Member Gooner's Avatar
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    Oh I definitely agree with a waiting period, perhaps 3 years or something along those lines.

    If they keep it at two, I think they might be really strict about who goes in.



  30. #470
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I'd say a minimum of 5 years. In fact, I was thinking 10, to make it really count for something. It actually works quite well in keeping people 'staggered', so that they don't all become available at once.

    For example, Alan Shearer and Dennis Bergkamp both became eligible in 2016.
    Sheringham became eligible in 2017.
    Fowler became eligible in 2018.
    David James will only become eligible at the end of this season.
    Thierry Henry would likely be inducted at the first opportunity in 2022.
    Paul Scholes would be the same the following year.
    The year after that, Ashley Cole would become eligible.
    Frank Lampard, Rio Ferdinand and Steven Gerrard all become available as of 2025, so one probably misses out until the following year.
    John Terry could be put off until 2027, when he becomes an obvious first choice.
    As of right now Rooney wouldn't be in contention until 2028.

    Doing it that way, you'd have most of the 2000s stars staggered, so you could induct the real obvious choices as they became available alongside people who've been longer gone, that maybe don't get the shine they deserve now - the likes of Paul McGrath, Gavin Speed, Gianfranco Zola, etc. And to be honest if this isn't a vehicle to remember great players who don't get the credit they deserve then I don't know what the point of it is.


    Anyway, if they are doing two a year, I think the first two years should be Cantona and Shearer, and Schmeichel and McGrath. Two attackers, one of the most stylish and the greatest goalscorer - and then two of the finest players in the less glamorous positions. Once those four are in, I think you can sort of do what you like after that. I'd suggest an Arsenal player would have to go in once you reach the third year - either Ian Wright, Tony Adams, Dennis Bergkamp or Patrick Vieira. I could see John Barnes going in quite early, too.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  31. #471
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Bah. Battered by Leicester. Going down with a whimper it seems.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  32. #472
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    It might well depend on whether you can get anything from your game in hand, Prime - is it Sheffield United you have in that? A win would put you above Watford, Bournemouth, and ourselves (currently) on points. Doesn't seem to be too much to choose between the games the four teams have coming up other than that spare you have - similar level(s) of teams in most of them. I think everyone up to Brighton is potentially in trouble, as there's then a five point gap to Saints in 14th. Brighton's form is pretty poor, and if that continues they could find themselves slipping into trouble as other teams pick up some points (ourselves included, hopefully).

  33. #473
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    3 Leicester players and Benjamin Mendy all in self-isolation

    Arteta confirmed as having coronavirus.

    Surely the PL can't carry on with crowds of 30/40/50/60k this weekend. No telling whether Arteta has passed it on to his players, or even West Ham staff/players last weekend.

    I'll be honest, I will find it hilarious if they have to cancel the league and not have a champion this season.

  34. #474
    Senior Member Gooner's Avatar
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    Yeah, the Arsenal game has already been postponed and I think the PL will pull all games starting this weekend. Forget behind doors, time to actually postpone them for a couple of weeks and reassess the situation.

    I've got Euro 2020 tickets too so I'm expecting that to be postponed to next year too.

    Sport, let alone football, in general will have to take a break I think, I can't see a way of continuing on with the current situation...



  35. #475
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    So, I'm reading this morning and it seems like all 20 clubs in the Premier League will need to unanimously decide on the course of action around this.

    Is it just me that can't see any way they get a unanimous result? There are three scenarios I see:

    1. Postpone until a later date - whereby certain clubs might then get key players fit again (Kane/Son stick in my mind, for example) meaning some teams may get a disadvantage over their original planned fixtures going ahead.

    2. Cancel the league, and the current league positions dictate the end of the season, so Liverpool are champions, Norwich, Watford, Bournemouth go down - but then you will undoubtedly get protests from at least Bournemouth, who are only there due to goal difference, while Norwich and Watford are still very much within a chance of escaping too. Plus - while it would be petty, can you see Everton and Man United agreeing to just give Liverpool the title? Let alone City who might still make it a proper contest if Liverpool really have gone off the rails.

    3. Cancel the league, but no champion and no relegation - can't see Liverpool agreeing to that...

    EDIT: All league football postponed until at least April 3rd. Europa and Champions Leagues also suspended.
    Last edited by Oliver; 2 Weeks Ago at 07:14 AM.

  36. #476
    Senior Member Gooner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    So, I'm reading this morning and it seems like all 20 clubs in the Premier League will need to unanimously decide on the course of action around this.

    Is it just me that can't see any way they get a unanimous result? There are three scenarios I see:

    1. Postpone until a later date - whereby certain clubs might then get key players fit again (Kane/Son stick in my mind, for example) meaning some teams may get a disadvantage over their original planned fixtures going ahead.

    2. Cancel the league, and the current league positions dictate the end of the season, so Liverpool are champions, Norwich, Watford, Bournemouth go down - but then you will undoubtedly get protests from at least Bournemouth, who are only there due to goal difference, while Norwich and Watford are still very much within a chance of escaping too. Plus - while it would be petty, can you see Everton and Man United agreeing to just give Liverpool the title? Let alone City who might still make it a proper contest if Liverpool really have gone off the rails.

    3. Cancel the league, but no champion and no relegation - can't see Liverpool agreeing to that...

    EDIT: All league football postponed until at least April 3rd. Europa and Champions Leagues also suspended.
    I think every club would go for option 1 on that list. 2 and 3, for obvious reasons, they'll be clubs strongly against it. Whereas getting injured players back... every team has injuries, it's just part and parcel of a season. If they're back fit and you're up against them in your next match (whenever that is)... tough luck I'd say? Plus by the time the season starts up again, every team will probably have had a week or two of current-pre-season... if that's a thing!



  37. #477
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Any solution is going to have to see Liverpool as champions. They are just too far clear to give it up. Relegation is much trickier though.

    The best version I came up with was going back to a 22 team EPL for one season, with the current 20 teams plus the two automatic promotion spots. Then run it like the 1994/95 season in order to go back to normal. And the title and European spots are just decided on current positions.

    Pipe dream stuff for all kinds of reasons but I think if you could get past the politics it's the best way all around.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  38. #478
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    Any solution is going to have to see Liverpool as champions. They are just too far clear to give it up. Relegation is much trickier though.

    The best version I came up with was going back to a 22 team EPL for one season, with the current 20 teams plus the two automatic promotion spots. Then run it like the 1994/95 season in order to go back to normal. And the title and European spots are just decided on current positions.

    Pipe dream stuff for all kinds of reasons but I think if you could get past the politics it's the best way all around.
    Even then, though, you might have issues - Fulham are third in the Championship but still have West Brom and Leeds to play. Were either of those two to slip up, Fulham could sneak an automatic promotion place.

    League One has something like three teams on 60 points behind Rotherham on 62, last I checked - so very easy for that to be overhauled.

    Just feels like there are so many potentially moving parts and challenges to any option that gets put forward or taken on, there's no 'clean' way to handle things.

  39. #479
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    No clean way, no. I think the suggestion is about as clean as it gets but obviously that is still kinda murky. The best solution is playing the season out, but if that's not possible....

    The thing about down the pyramid is that it does matter a bit less what you decide. I don't mean to play down the experience of teams and their fans down there, but the financial stakes are so much smaller outside the Premier League. Kicking someone out of the division... I mean, it could decide their future for a generation. It's possible down in League One, but given the greater movement between those leagues, much less likely.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  40. #480
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    It's all relative though, right? I've seen the Peterborough chairman saying they'll need loans of 300k to 400k per club in League One and Two to just pay wages/day to day expenses whilst the league is suspended and they have no matchday income.

    Some people are suggesting you scrap things like the FA Cup next season to make extra time for league games should, for example, this season be postponed until July/August time. But from a League One/Two perspective, the winners of the first round of the FA Cup this season got 36k - that's probably a fair few weeks of the average wage in those leagues. Cutting that kind of income out could have a pretty big impact on a club.

    You're right, though - there's nothing quite equivalent to the financial impact of losing a Premier League spot. Would be awful for a club to lose that position almost by default. So definitely no relegation, I think you and I can both agree Prime!

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