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  1. #81
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
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    On the topic of guys who get a second chance of being the main event after leaving.....does Drew McIntyre deserve a mention here? Originally the Chosen One, but now he's actually getting over in the role they wanted him first time round. I think it counts.


    Moving on, it's time for a new topic. And we're going to start with a quick bonus topic:

    You all know what to do, and you all know I appreciate you helping me with these.....

    Anonymous: This is FICTION. you donít really give a shit if we reply or not and if one of us vanished tomorrow you wouldnít shed any tears. Weíre just your slaves.

    Final Score: With only one voter, FICTION wins pretty conclusively. You are all my slaves.


    Now on to the big topic of the moment:


    The whole "listening to the fans" shtick from the McMahons is just a ploy to not get so much heat for their shitty booking.


    DynamiteBillington: This is FICTION. You want to know why? 3 words: ďWe hear youĒ.

    Remember HHH saying that a couple of years back? At the time, the Womenís Revolution was just something that was happening on NXT, but the crowds on Raw & Smackdown had started chants relating to it. Him saying that was essentially the same as the segment a few weeks ago where they acknowledged things needed to change.

    Now think back again to that stage of the Womenís Revolution. Did it happen overnight? No, of course it didnít. These things take time. And that was only relating to a small portion of the show. Now theyíre having to replan the philosophy for the entire promotion. For the first couple of months after he said it, these forums were full of comments saying nothing had changed. Now look at it Ė Women are (probably) going to headline WrestleMania and Becky is probably the biggest star they have. We wonít see any major changes until after WrestleMania, but we will see change.

    Anonymous: I donít know about this one. The McMahons will see the falling ratings, hear the boos and be taking note. But they also have their own, stubborn ideas and have been force feeding fans for years. The truth is, if Balor beats Brock at the Rumble, and we get a world champion on Raw, itíll mean far more than any words the McMahons have said. Whilst Brock is champ, fan favourites are routinely being ignored and canít make TV, and Smackdown is being treated like an ugly step sister, the McMahons have done nothing. The WWE is shit right now. I even find Ambrose and Rollins dull and never thought Iíd feel that way.

    Itís a sad, depressed, FICTION for this one from me.

    Prime Time: Absolutely a FACT. I'd be stunned if anyone really believed this listening to the fans thing was anything else. If they do, I'd love to sell them some magic beans if they are interested. The price will be very reasonable, I swear.

    Spinmaster: Fuck. I wish so much that this was fiction but it's without a doubt FACT. The McMahons saw that the crowds were turning on them, and they figured the only way to change that was to say that they were entering a new era. It's not the first time, and it won't be the last, that the WWE has pretended to do a massive overhaul and then back tracked within a couple months. They will probably keep this up until Mania and then slowly begin putting things back the way it was before they came out and blew smoke up the audience's asses.

    SirSam: I'm tempted to say "no duh." FACT times a hundred, the basically admitted as much on live TV. The only way you could go fiction on this one is if you wanted to play semantics and say it was because of 'shitting creative writing'.

    Burn11MyLight: 100% FACT. I mean they keep acknowledging fan complaints(Seth's promo, Finn's push, The Revival, etc). But that's just to throw us off the scent. While RAW has improved (a bit) lately, it's still not making any actual drastic changes to the show; Brock and Ronda are still champs, and The Revival are not. Just because WWE "Acknowledges" how shitty it is doesn't mean it is actually making real changes. They're just stalling to get to the Road to WrestleMania, which they think will keep people's interest. We'll see.

    Don Franc: FACT. WWE reads message boards too, and they are well aware of how their hardcore fans feel about the show. RAW's numbers has decreased dramatically in recent times and Vince as undoubtedly running scared. In his mind he knows that when all is said and done it will only be the hardcore wrestling fans sticking around; you know, the ones that keep the show above a 2.0 rating. And because of that he wants to atone for previous failures and book better television for those fans who have stuck around even when WWE was shitty (he's still failing on RAW even after some improvement). The reason he is trying this is because he knows that if his most loyal fans turn on him then he'll have nothing.

    MizFan: This question was first asked some time ago and may already be irrelevant, but for the sake of answering I'll say FICTION. Nothing I've heard sounds all that different. Some things better, some things worse. Overall I like to be optimistic but I'm not holding my breath for any foundational shift in strategy.

    KingZak13: I thought this was the general consensus anyway.

    Zak: 100% super FACT
    Dog: Got FICTION and itís paper, spotted it on the side of his gum, I went to retrieve it and he blocked my hand with his paw.

    Final Score: 6-4 to FACT. I guess we need more optimists round here. Whereís Dave when you need him!
    FACT or FICTION: Ladies and Gentlemen, Elias.
    PM me to get involved.


  2. #82
    The Brain
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    Haha, I definitely stupidly gave the wrong answer. Definitely meant Fact, and from his answer I think Nony might have made the same mistake. I think it's just you and the dog on the side of fiction, Dyna. We're not pessimists, we're just realists!

  3. #83
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
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    Got to admit, I did wonder if you'd misread the topic
    FACT or FICTION: Ladies and Gentlemen, Elias.
    PM me to get involved.


  4. #84
    Lamb of LOP anonymous's Avatar
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    I don’t even remember taking part. Assume I was drunk.

  5. #85
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anonymous View Post
    I donít even remember taking part. Assume I was drunk.
    That may not be a problem for much longer....

    Ronda Rousey will turn heel soon.

    Anonymous: FICTION. Rousey is the Cena, Reigns and Hogan of the womenís division. If she turns heel, Iíll stop drinking alcohol. Whether the fans start booing her is a different question altogether.

    Prime Time: It depends on your definition of soon, but yeah, I think Rousey probably goes heel sooner rather than later. FACT

    SpinMaster: If they are going with the Ronda vs Becky match at Wrestlemania then I see no way for this to be anything but 100 percent FACT. There is no way that Ronda can go through an entire feud with The Man and expect to be cheered. The fans will turn on her and tear her apart to the point where it would be impossible to try pushing her as a face. The match could work as face vs face but the story leading up to it would be a trainwreck. The best thing to do is turn Ronda in the match against Sasha and have her go on a crusade against all the members of the WWE Four Horsewomen. The fans will eat it up and the storyline will be something worthy of the main event at Wrestlemania.

    Burn11MyLight: FICTION. If Ronda lost to a face on her own show at WrestleMania, maybe. But losing to Becky at WrestleMania wouldn't naturally lead to a heel turn, and Becky has been playing the tweener well enough, and Ronda the babyface fighting champion well enough, that a turn is completely unnecessary. For now.

    Don Franc: FACT. I believe that Rousey will turn heel sometime after Wrestlemania; possibly due to a loss to Becky at Wrestlemania? Who knows, but I think we are getting MMA Four Horsewomen against WWE Four Horsewomen at Summerslam (maybe in a War Games match even). And because of that match Rousey would have to be heel. I know many would disagree with this due to her popularity and WWE still wanting to use her to run the division but this is what's needed if the rumoured match were to happen.

    MizFan: She isn't already? I'll go with FICTION but I think we'll see some tweener behavior leading up to Wrestlemania.

    KingZak13: Depending on the way you look at this, she has already turned heel, not full blown heel of course but the turn is there. Letís take a quick look at the evidence from the last couple months.

    ē Treats the most over face with nothing but disdain.
    ē Costs two face characters the title in a TLC triple threat
    ē Has a feud with another face character leading to the rumble.

    Outside of Nia Jax, Ronda has been feuding with face characters since November, and for the most part, she is the less popular of the two sides in the feud. While true two faces can face off, that doesnít happen for three months straight without a turn or big change being imminent.

    Honestly a heel turn for the feud would help build it, and it would have no repercussion really. (Rumors) Since Ronda is going to be leaving after WrestleMania to start a family (END Rumors), since sheíll be gone, that would mean that when she eventually returns in a year or soís time, sheíll be back to being a face because ďabsence makes the heart grow fonderĒ.


    Zak: FACT
    Dog: He put my pinkie finger in his mouth instead Ö this caused me to drop FACT on the floor, he picked it

    DynamiteBillington: OK, so Iím writing this at the last minute before posting, so several weeks after all the other entries. At this point in time, the turn has already taken place as part of the build to WrestleMania so I think itís unfair for me to be included in the voting.


    Final Score: Does the final score matter? The important thing is that Anonymous has to give up alcohol. Let's see what impact that has on his column writing.....
    FACT or FICTION: Ladies and Gentlemen, Elias.
    PM me to get involved.


  6. #86
    Lamb of LOP anonymous's Avatar
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    Fuck.

  7. #87
    The Brain
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    I'm still not sure how you can tell if she's the heel or not.

  8. #88
    Lamb of LOP anonymous's Avatar
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    It’s true. With other wrestlers at least they grow a beard.

  9. #89
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
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    Google says its true. The Internet never lies....

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndica...tlane.amp.html
    FACT or FICTION: Ladies and Gentlemen, Elias.
    PM me to get involved.


  10. #90
    Mediocrity at it's finest kingzak13's Avatar
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    I love when a topic goes like this.

    Also because the lack of score bothers me a little, it's 3-5 in favour of Fact.

    Best of luck giving up drinking Nony, it's a bold claim to make.

  11. #91
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
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    (Puts on best Lance Storm voice)

    If I can be serious for a minute....

    Not sure this has come up in any conversation here before, but I gave up drinking back in April 2000. Had a tattoo done last year on the 18th anniversary. At the time I'd known for a while I needed to cut down & get it under control, but someone called me out on a similar comment to Nony's. They bet me I couldn't do 2 weeks without. 3 days later I lost the bet. That was the final straw and I've never touched a drop since.

    But yeah, it's fun when you get to call people out on something they thought was a throw away comment and get a bit of banter going!

    Edit: Just thought I'd clarify I'm not saying Nony has a genuine problem like I did/do, there's nothing wrong with enjoying a few drinks. It just felt like an opportune moment to share a bit of personal info with you guys
    Last edited by DynamiteBillington; 03-08-2019 at 04:48 AM.
    FACT or FICTION: Ladies and Gentlemen, Elias.
    PM me to get involved.


  12. #92
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    Hey what do you know. Ronda turned heel in the most convoluted and silly way possible.

    Even did a classic 'you people' promo.

  13. #93
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    To be fair, Shane's promo last night was the worst heel turn promo, possibly ever, so it made Ronda's look that much better.

  14. #94
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    The list of turns since Summer Slam would have to be nearing 20 and at least Elias and Dean are on it twice. I guess this is what happens when everything is done on the fly. Craziness.

  15. #95
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
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    OK, so it's been a few weeks and we haven't had an official update on Nony's promise so I figure it's time we move on. Given the timing, and as it's been a few weeks since the last update, I'm going to throw two topics at you in one post.

    Becky Lynch's heat will die out after Wrestlemania.

    Anonymous: Becky is an accidental Superstar who the WWE had no intention of making this successful. She got herself over organically and deserves massive credit for it. And Becky could go two ways after Mania; the Daniel Bryan way or the Zack Ryder way. Both of those guys got themselves over and had a Wrestlemania moment. One swam, the other was capsized and shrunk by the writers. And my belief is that Becky will follow the latter. This is a FACT. Becky has ruined WWEís plans for their chosen girls and theyíll eventually punish her. How dare she get herself over instead of Flair! Evil girl. Now sheís going to take Rondaís pops. Soon sheíll be squashed into oblivion before she can say woo woo woo.....

    Prime Time: Will Becky's heat fail? Maybe, but in the absence of evidence one way or the other I'm inclined to be optimistic and say she'll hold onto it. Hard to be sure but it seems to exist outside of WWE booking. So FICTION.

    SpinMaster: If the crack WWE booking team has anything to do with it then her heat will probably die down within the next few weeks. This all comes down to how much freedom she is given to do things her own way and talk without heavy scripting. If they let The Man go to the ring and show off her mic and ring skills then I see no reason that she wouldn't continue to be the top star on the blue brand, and therefore, the entire WWE. On the flip side, if Vince decides that he needs to control what she is saying then she will probably be jobbing to Alicia Fox within 4 months and the crowd will have forgotten that she was ever a top star. Since I have no faith in Vince to get out of the way I will go with FACT.

    Burn11MyLight: FICTION, and how dare you. Becky has tapped into a character people love, is great on the mic, and one of the best women's wrestlers on the roster. I don't see why she would fade after main eventing WrestleMania.

    SirSam: FACT although this largely depends how she is handled. Funnily enough the more the WWE give into 'what fans want' the more likely her heat is to die off. Let's just say that she gets everything fans supposedly want: winning the Royal Rumbe then beating Ronda Rousey in the main event of Wrestlemania to become the champion of champions. That will be an awesome moment but where does she go from there? Who does she possibly face that could maintain that kind of trajectory and wouldn't it just be natural for fans to drift off onto something new once she has hit the highest point she can get to? I'm not saying this to attack fans either, it is a similar story to Chris Benoit or Daniel Bryan, the magic isn't in them reigning as champion the magic is in the chasing because the tension is if they will or won't get there. When they are champion the tension has resolved itself and it is perectly natural that once someone's story has resolved itself you move fans would move onto a different one.

    Don Franc: FICTION. Okay, so honestly I'm hoping this one is fiction. This all boils down to how Becky is presented on the road to Wrestlemania because honestly Becky's heat lay in the hands of the WWE writers. There shouldn't be any reason why Becky's heat should die out after 'Mania if her character is handled correctly. In the lead up to the Rumble she was still super popular and more over than two of the most popular people on the roster in Charlotte and Asuka so things are still running smoothly for now. Let's just hope there are no bumps in the road. If WWE can par the course then Becky will be just fine.

    MizFan: Definite FICTION. It'll die down somewhat, probably, because when was the last time WWE maintained someone super hot for a prolonged period of time? But she's established herself enough that she's going to retain a good chunk of that heat for a long, long time, possibly forever.

    KingZak13: I mean technically, the rest of time is after WrestleMania, so if she loses her heat at any point in time then technically this is Fact.
    However what I am assuming the question is asking is whether her heat will die out in the aftermath of WrestleMania. And I think the issue here is that Becky is going to be womenís champion coming out of the WrestleMania main event. The big winners at WrestleMania donít lose their heat for quite some time. I donít think she will be losing heat (or even the title) until sometime after SummerSlam, which I think is significantly after WrestleMania enough for it to not count to the question.
    Zak: FICTION
    Dog: FACT and paper

    DynamiteBillington: I hope this is Fiction, but I fear WWE still have the potential to screw things up and kill any heat off making it a Fact. The last time someone got this hot despite WWEís best efforts to focus elsewhere, we got an awesome moment at the end of WM30 before Daniel Bryanís retirement put his progress on hold. I canít help but think that was the best thing to happen for his popularity, WWE were determined to stick with their plan and would have done their best to bury his momentum.
    Going to remain optimistic though, and go with my initial thought of FICTION despite my concerns. 

    Final Score: 6-4 to Fiction. It seems we're in an optimistic mood today. Or we were a couple of months ago when most of you guys wrote your contributions.


    Despite the fan's wanting Becky, WWE still sees Charlotte as superior.

    Anonymous: FACT. The fans are wrong according to the WWE and theyíll always have their favourites. Besides, for all we know, Becky could be backstage getting high and shitting in Menís gym bags and Charlotte could be the most lovely lady on earth. We donít see everything and the WWE does and believe they know best. And they definitely think Charlotte is superior.

    Prime Time: Unmitigated FACT, WWE are squarely behind Charlotte for little to no reason. She's not half the wrestler of Asuka, nor half the character of.. Well, several of their peers. But it is what it is.

    SpinMaster: I honestly do not even know what to write about this since I believe it is so obvious. I'm not even sure how any person here is going to be able to argue the opposite way. This is 100 percent, irrefutable FACT. The WWE, and Vince, have such a hard on for Charlotte that they did the same thing with her that they did with Becky just so that she could hopefully gain back some love from the fans. They didn't do that to help Becky, or to create intrigue, they did it so that their precious Queen would still be getting some of the biggest reactions of the night (Still not as big as Becky's though). Vince needed to make sure that he could justify pushing Charlotte as the top star that he wants her to be until she retires.

    Burn11MyLight: FACT. Let's not go crazy, Charlotte is still a Flair, and the female Roman Reigns. Is WWE taking a pause to give Becky a reward for getting over? Yup. But they do this every once in a while when they can no longer hold back a red hot act, and yet, a few months of bad writing/booking later, they'll go back to who they wanted to push initially. Even more egregiously than before.

    SirSam: FACT because Charlotte is superior, just look at her 2018 resume. However just because she is superior doesn't mean the WWE don't see how hot Becky Lynch is and will maybe give Becky her moment in the sun. Long term though, Charlotte will absolutely be number 1.

    Don Franc: FACT. FACT. FACT. Because of Flair's bloodline she will always be given the preferential treatment. The only difference at this point in time is that the fans chose Becky undeniably and there is nothing Vince can do about it. Becky's rise probably gave him nightmares about the Yes Movement too.

    MizFan: I'll go with FACT since WWE doesn't like to change their opinion about, well, anything. Just like with Bryan and Punk, I think WWE will try to give Becky her moment then move on to Charlotte. We'll see if it goes well this time or not (probably not).

    KingZak13: Sadly I feel like this is just a fact of life sort of thing. Charlotte is the face of the WWE womens division and while Becky may be the current big thing, Charlotte has been at the top of the womenís division since she won the NXT championship, while other people have been at the top as well, she has been one of the top faces or top heels since the beginning. So while Becky maybe on top for now, Charlotte is always gonna be considered the top women by the WWE.
    However this isnít an excuse to shoehorn her into the Becky vs Ronda match. That match has some serious heat to it and while I donít doubt that a triple threat between Becky, Ronda and Charlotte would be a great match, it isnít going to go over well. Charlotte being added to a title match she didnít need to be in is what started this in the first place.
    Becky vs Ronda at Wrestlemania. Accept no substitutes.
    Back on the topic, fact.
    Zak: FACT
    Dog: went for FICTION, missed and got it on the second try.

    DynamiteBillington: Unfortunately I donít believe there is much discussion to be had here. Itís a FACT, and will remain as such for as long as Vince stays in charge.

    Final Score: Aside from the Dog, that was unanimously in favour of FACT.
    FACT or FICTION: Ladies and Gentlemen, Elias.
    PM me to get involved.


  16. #96
    The Brain
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    Will WWE do the right thing? A dubious maybe.

    Will WWE double down on what they feel is the right thing no matter what? A resounding yes!

    Sounds about right to me! Thanks for keeping this rolling Dyna, always enjoy checking out everyone's takes.

  17. #97
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
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    Are we ready for more? Lets do it.....


    There will be 15+ call ups from NXT, NXT UK, 205 Live, etc. during 2019 but less than 1/3 will have any lasting impact.

    DynamiteBillington: Weíre probably already approaching that many call ups, so that side of things is pretty much guaranteed and is a FACT. The trouble is, I suspect this was raised as a negative concept, considering a lasting impact to be a lengthy main event run.

    What actually is a lasting impact though? How many wrestlers have truly had a lasting impact on the business? Not many. Definitely less than a third of those who competed. And thatís even if you only define Ďimpactí as being in a main event role. If you consider those who have actually impacted the business and genuinely changed it in some way, shape or form, you actually get down to less than 1%. Youíre talking about the likes of Hogan and Austin when you start thinking like that. Everyone will have their own opinion, but I suspect those who have impacted wrestling in a way that genuinely changed the business could be counted on your fingers. Using that logic, this is guaranteed to be FACT.

    However, I suspect this topic was meant to focus primarily on those who have a prominent role rather than those who had an actual impact. What is a prominent role though? Does it require you to hold a major championship? I donít think so. Elias right now has a prominent role and barely wrestles.

    For my conclusion though, Iím going to use Tye Dillinger when he was in NXT as an example. He never genuinely threatened the main event scene, but was always featured whether it was as a first feud for the latest incoming indie-darling or a feud to build someone as a title challenger; he was the man to go to. And to me, that is a prominent role. His impact on the business was the guys he got over, not necessarily the level of success he achieved (although at one point he was admittedly one of the most over in NXT). And wrestling history is full of guys like that.

    Based on that, Iíd say any wrestler that plays their part on the roster for a significant period of time can claim to have had a lasting impact in one way or another, making this 100% FICTION.


    Anonymous: FACT. And itís far less than a third. More and more callups for an incredibly packed roster mean itís impossible for anyone except the elite to achieve any sort of success. Factor in the fact that half of the WWEís current roster are currently sitting round twiddling their thumbs and you would need a new 12 hour daily show to fit in all the talent. And unless Vince has plans to create a 24/7 live wrestling channel, I donít think anyone less than a clear draw has a hope in hell of making an impact. The vessel is already over capacity.

    Prime Time: FICTION - but only because 15 feels like a lot, especially if tag acts count as one (as all reasonable people believe they should). Otherwise the ratio feels fair enough.

    SpinMaster: I have seen nothing from the WWE, since NXT call ups have began, to make me have faith in their ability to get any of the men and women of yellow brand over on the main roster. To this day most of the people called up have been forgotten, ruined, or pushed into mid-card hell. The list of people who have thrived could be counted out on my fingers, while the list a failures is longer than Jericho's 1004 holds list. For that reason I have to go with FACT. I'm sure we will get some people coming from all the brands, with huge influxes after Wrestlemania and Summerslam. I think we will be lucky if even 1/4 have a lasting impact.

    Burn11MyLight: FACT. I mean that's just history at this point. I'm defining "Lasting Impact" as "Singles champions or multi-time tag champions". And while eventually, just by attrition (no more Brock, Cena, etc) NXT wrestlers will have to carry the brand, 2019 isn't that year.

    Don Franc: Well, we already have 6 set to make there debut soon and I'm assuming there will be a few more after Wrestlemania and a couple throughout the year but I don't think we'll reach the 15+ mark in terms of call-ups. With that being said, I still believe that less than a 1/3 will have any lasting impact because WWE just doesn't know what to do with these guys. The current call-ups that they are promoting have the potential to become staples of the brand, whether in the midcard or otherwise but there's this mythical curse attached to NXT call-ups that they don't exceed or even come close to the potential they presented on NXT (well, not really mythical). WWE just continues to book a character differently than how they were booked in NXT, which is their downfall. This is easily a FACT.

    MizFan: I'll go with FACT on this one. I think we're likely to see at least that many callups, but the track record of WWE making them meaningful simply isn't good. I'd be happy to be wrong about this one.

    KingZak13: This one really depends, are we counting the current crop that was announced at the end of December, because if we are then that is absolutely true that we getting at least 15 call-ups. We have already got six if including those, meaning we only need nine more. And with the inevitable call-up for the Undisputed Era that is another four, meaning we only need five more, which considering at least one tag team will be brought up, the call-up number being reached is easy enough.

    The question of two thirds having no impact, all we need is six to make an impact and then this becomes fiction. And in my mind, if they are calling up Undisputed Era then they will have some form of impact, that would mean that we only need two to make an impact and that almost feels inevitable that weíll get two superstars that can make an impact. So I guess this is Fiction

    Zak: FICTION
    Dog: Tried to bite the question in half, realised it lacked ham. Picked Fiction and its paper immediately, so I guess that means super FICTION


    Final Score: It's been a while since we had a topic go this close, we actually have a tie. Everyone had their own justification for their answers, but the closest thing to a common theme appears to be a lack of trust in WWE's booking of the main roster. I suspect Burn11MyLight has the answer which may be the closest to the long term truth. Eventually WWE will no longer be able to rely on bringing back the Attitude Era stars, so guys from NXT will be all that is left. Just think, one day some of today's NXT alumni will be the part time glass ceiling fans of the future are complaining about.

    At 4-4 though, Fact or Fiction rules say we go with The Dog's answer, so this is SUPER FICTION.
    FACT or FICTION: Ladies and Gentlemen, Elias.
    PM me to get involved.


  18. #98
    The Brain
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    Always tougher to get consensus when the question is a multi-faceted or a bit vague, since "lasting impact" means different things to different people. I haven't been counting, but have we hit 15 call ups yet? Feels like we may well have!

  19. #99
    I'm still hoping WWE will get call-ups right, and more than 1/3 will be successful stories! It's looking like a good start as far as lasting impact goes. We got 2 matches from Heavy Machinery at the SuperStar Shakeup last week (Main Event taping and a dark match), and my section was marking out LOUD for Otis. The kid behind me screamed for the bacon during all the match. That, for me, counts as "lasting impact".

  20. #100
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    Hahaha Nony has to quite drinking! If he's anything like me I highly doubt that's possible.

    Also, congratulations for being sober for so long Dyno. I don't think most people realize how difficult that really is, so big ups to you.

    So far Becky has still retained the heat she garnered last year but with the finish at Mania I hope that we aren't just counting down the clock until she loses that momentum. Having her first title defense supposedly be against Lacey Evans is a risk in and of itself as well. Although Evans will certainly benefit from that.

    There's alot of us who feel like 15+ call-ups seemed a bit much, with how many call-ups have already occurred this year, it's already evident that only a 1/3 will succeed.

    I'll be replying to your pm regarding the new topics in the next day. Thanks for keeping this rolling!

  21. #101
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
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    I think we need some feedback to begin with....

    Miz: I actually like those topics the best, it tends to get people delving deeper into it and discussing the options. A lot of the more defined topics don't generate that sort of discussion.

    Cathe: You should join in - I did PM you the current round of topics some time ago, it's not too late to reply to the ones I haven't posted yet if you can find it in your inbox!

    Don: Still waiting for that reply


    Moving on, it's time for a new topic before I disappear for a week on a much deserved holiday. Not quite the fortnight in New York I was supposed to be having before my girlfriend's accident, but I get to go home for a week and visit a few of the places I grew up. Have to visit family whilst I'm there though, some of which will be OK, some not so much....


    Roman Reigns will win a major championship within 3 months.

    SpinMaster: I'm going to say FICTION, only because I hope that WWE cannot be this stupid. Reigns is finally at a place where the fans respect and cheer for him. The worst thing that could happen is rushing him back to the main event, especially if it means defeating Rollins or Kofi. The best move for him is to spend the summer getting back into fighting shape, then spend the fall building towards the main event, and then finally the winter and spring months can be him entering the title picture. Reigns should not be champion any time before Survivor Series at the earliest.

    Anonymous: Itís nice to have Roman back without a title. I imagine Rollins will win at Mania and I donít think the WWE will let those two fight till at least Summerslam, which is over 3 months away. I think Reigns will have a separate feud, with some overrated, overpushed heel for a bit before turning his attention to gold. FICTION.

    Burn11nMyLight: FICTION, however we're defining "Major" in this instance. Roman will probably have another big non-title feud after WrestleMania, assuming he doesn't just keep brawling with Drew for another PPV cycle, while Seth takes on the swarm of heel and new challengers that have been held back by...not having a champion on the show at all and that champion being a heel himself(Lashley, Drew, Braun, Corbin, Finn rematch all come to mind). WWE may actually be a bit cautious in pushing Roman too close to gold too soon, to build up his popularity before throwing us back into the Roman Empire. He's going to need it, because if I'm wrong, all of that good will is going to go right back out the window.

    DynamiteBillington: If the Intercontinental Title still counted as a major championship, Iíd go fact straight away. I think theyíll rebuild him the proper way this time and have him spend some time in the upper-mid card whilst he maintains and builds popularity. Having him holding it for an extended period would also continue to add some much needed credibility to the belt. Unfortunately at time of writing that means a feud against Balor and I donít seeing them doing that Face v Face match, meaning this would need the belt to be hotshotted on to a heel before Roman got it.

    That Face v Face dynamic also puts a hold on him getting the WWE Title off Kofi. I think theyíll have Kofi (and the rest of New Day) go against at least a couple of bad guys before he inevitably passes the belt on. And I still think theyíll use the Freebird Rule to test how Big E gets on in a main event position. So I guess Iíve ruled that one out as well. And as heís moved to Smackdown, he isnít going up against Rollins or Joe for one of their belts.

    What I do see happening though, is him forming an alliance with someone and having a run with the Smackdown Tag belts. Iím not sure who at the moment, but something tells me that will be the title he holds next. As theyíre currently vacant, it leaves the possibilities open for it to happen as well. Just so long as his partner isnít Nicholas.

    I donít see the Tag belts as ĎMajorí though, so I have to agree with everyone else and call this FICTION.


    Final Score: Four replies, all going for FICTION. Maybe this topic was too obvious?
    FACT or FICTION: Ladies and Gentlemen, Elias.
    PM me to get involved.


  22. #102
    Mediocrity at it's finest kingzak13's Avatar
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    So I was halfway through writing these, didn't realise they would be out so soon. As luck would have it, I had already wrote this a few weeks ago.
    I'll have the rest of the topic in tomorrow. I already have two more done.




    ēRoman Reigns will win a major championship within 3 months of WrestleMania.

    No, no, please god no.

    Roman is actually over with the audience, it has taken 4 years and cancer to fix him and get him to a point where the reaction isnít split. If he gets a world title, or even a world title match, that would just be flushing it all away by putting him over instead of someone that the fans have clamoured to have as champion (Both Kofi and Seth can fit into the category) and to just thrust Roman into the main event scene at their expense is exactly what made Roman so detested to begin with.

    I will say that I am not counting IC or US titles as major championships, though a match for one of those is more acceptable. Iím not counting the tag titles either, though I think joining the tag division for a while might be a fun new twist for Roman, I say this having recently gone back to watch some 2013 matches for a project and seeing just how good some of the tag matches he was in were. Iíd actively recommend going back and watching either The Shield vs The Usos or The Rhodes Brothers matches, those were some fantastic matches.

    Anyway, like I was saying, Roman shouldnít go anywhere near the world titles right now. And seeing as he only needs to make it to July without one to make this FICTION, I like my chances of being right here.

  23. #103
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    I think WWE MAYBE learnt from their mistakes with Roman in the past. I'd suggest moving Roman slowly through the ranks up to the point where fans actually want him to win the Royal Rumble. In the meantime I'd have him do non-tiitle feuds, although he could be busy with the McMahon's now. So, a match with Elias at MITB and then possibly a match with Shane-O-Mac st the next PPV and the 3 months has ran its course. This is without a doubt FICTION.

    I'll be PMing you the rest of the replies right now.

  24. #104
    The Brain
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    I thought for sure I sent you an answer for this!

  25. #105
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
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    Miz....

    Major apologies, your response got missed in my inbox as I was rushing to get something posted before going on holiday. To rectify things, here's what you said on this one:
    Stretch that to 6, 12 at the outset, and you've got a fact, but I don't think it'll happen in 3. Another FICTION from me.

    Guess that leaves us with a grand total of 7-0 to FICTION.
    FACT or FICTION: Ladies and Gentlemen, Elias.
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  26. #106
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Pretty sure I said Fact, but just because it seems like something they'd do rather than out of any real conviction.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  27. #107
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    Pretty sure I said Fact, but just because it seems like something they'd do rather than out of any real conviction.
    Oh fuck. You're right, looks like I screwed this one up completely. Just dug out your response from the deep dark depths on my inbox...
    FACT. My gut is that they’ll pick up almost exactly where they left off, and he’ll be back on top sometime in May or June.
    7-1.
    FACT or FICTION: Ladies and Gentlemen, Elias.
    PM me to get involved.


  28. #108
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    No worries, if I had any sense I'd have stayed quiet rather than look like a Billy no mates on this one!

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  29. #109
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
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    If we had friends, we wouldn't need to speak to people we don't know on the internet
    FACT or FICTION: Ladies and Gentlemen, Elias.
    PM me to get involved.


  30. #110
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
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    I think it's time for one final apology to all the guys who's responses I missed last time round and move on to a new topic....

    Elias will win a World Title by the end of 2020.

    SpinMaster: I seem to be a complete downer with this most recent list of FoF topics. This is without a doubt FICTION. In fact, Elias will be lucky if he holds a World title before he retires. He's more likely to be released by the end of 2020 then he is to be the champion. Those are the cold hard facts for a person who is character based, and directionless.

    Anonymous: No chance. Thereís more chance of one of HHHís kids winning the world title by the end of 2020 than a man who barely gets a match on PPV. Elias has been squandered, misused and defecated upon to the point where he is utterly irrelevant and further from the world title scene than ever.
    The only caveat is if he leaves the WWE for another company who push him to the moon. If TNA World Champion counts, this could be FACT. As things stand right now, itís total FICTION.

    Burn11nMyLight: FICTION, and it's a tragedy. Elias is one of the 5 most "Over" talents when he's given some TV time to shine, and he's not Jinder Mahal in the ring, so he absolutely should get a run at/with the title in the next 2 years. Will he, though? WWE may just see him as a comedic midcard heel, and while he could be great in that "Perpetual IC/US Champion" role that The Miz is finally trying to grow out of, he has so much more potential. All he has to do is beat out Seth, Roman, Braun, Drew, Aleistar, Ricochet, Sami, Kevin Owens, The New Daniel Bryan, The Miz, Finn Balor...

    Yeah, just looking at that list, I'd be pretty surprised. Pleasantly surprised, but surprised nonetheless.

    Don Franc: I don't even see Elias holding a midcard title in the immediate future to be honest. The reason for this is that the character that Elias portrays is not one that necessarily needs a title to stay relevant. He has the type of character that can stay relevant even without a title. So this is a massive FICTION from me. I'd be surprised if he ever wins a world title.

    KingZak13: This is an interesting one. Elias has taken a very different path to most competitors, he along with Alexa Bliss, Carmella, Lacey Evans and Braun Strowman are the only members of NXT generation that didnít actually take part in a match at a Takeover event, instead he went around being Elias, earning the ire of the NXT audience, before eventually being moved on to Raw.

    And he has been on Raw two years, all I remember of that time is that he faced Seth for the IC title at some point, and was a face for like two months this past winter. I could not tell you anything else he has done for the past two years, and yet he has maintained a prominent position throughout his whole main roster run which given the lack of prominent feuds, is a bit of an anomaly. Usually a good feud or two is what build a superstar to the gold but with Elias he is just omnipresent.

    If this were any singles title, then I would actually say 100% fact, but given it being the world titles, it makes it a lot more difficult. I think it is safe to say Kofi and Seth have the titles locked until SummerSlam, and after that we likely have a heel that takes it off them, plus the MITB winner to factor in too. We also have Roman getting back to a world championship, that is bound to happen in by or at WrestleMania 37 in 2021.

    I think the world title scene is a lot more cluttered than youíd think at a glance. I get the feeling that Elias could be a world title challenger as soon as whatever is after MITB (assuming he is given a shot by McMahon for fighting off Roman) but him winning is highly unlikely. I think Elias is going to occupy the sort of Ziggler spot as an upper midcard heel for the majority of his career. I think he wins the title, but that isnít for another few years. So I have to go with FICTION for this one

    Zak: FICTION
    Dog: A quick grab of Fact, and itís chunk of sausage, followed immediately by the Fiction. FACT


    MizFan: Elias has won me over to a certain extent with his character and heat seeking ways, but somehow I'm just not quite feeling it on this level. I'm gonna go FICTION on this one as well.

    Prime Time: I will say FICTION but I wouldnít be at all surprised if it was a FACT. I would only need a few hints that they were moving in that direction to change my mind.

    DynamiteBillington: I have mixed feelings about this one. Someone at the top of WWE obviously likes him, otherwise he wouldnít be getting to work with some of the top guys heís dealt with. That to me says the people who matter think he fits into that position.

    The trouble is, Iím not convinced the current era allows it. Had he debuted during the later 2000s or early 2010s, Iíd have said this was a definite Fact. Back then they were throwing the top title(s) at everyone who showed a bit of promise to see what worked. Unfortunately as very few of the guys they tried were truly ready for it, none of them worked and very few stuck around the main event scene in the longer term.

    Fast forward to the present day and it seems theyíve learned that lesson. They may experiment occasionally with putting people who donít seem 100% ready for the title into multi-man main event matches (and Elias falls into that category), but itís been quite some time since theyíve really done an experimental title run in the way they did 10 years ago. Most of the title holders in the past couple of years (not counting Jinder obviously) have all proven themselves as Main Eventers before getting their run with the belt.

    I think itís probably a fact that Elias will get a title run eventually (although there's probably a valid argument to say he falls into the Ted Dibiase / Jake the Snake category of being so over in his role he doesn't actually need the belt), but have to err on the side of caution and say itís FICTION that itíll happen by the end of 2020.


    Final Score: I make that 8-1. Zak, you need to have serious words with your dog, he got that one very wrong.


    Bonus Topic...

    Who's up for going live with the responses to a new topic?

    Dean Ambrose leaving WWE is a work.

    Answers in the comments please....
    FACT or FICTION: Ladies and Gentlemen, Elias.
    PM me to get involved.


  31. #111
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    FICTION. Partly because most of the people advocating this come across like they wear a tinfoil hat to stop the CIA stealing their thoughts, but also because if this is a fact then it's the most convincing and compelling bit of storytelling WWE have done in decades - and at this point would be, to be completely frank about it, out of character.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  32. #112
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
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    FACT. This is CM Punk all over again, the only difference is this time there's a potentially valid destination for him to be going to and they aren't blowing their load on the story by putting him back on TV too soon.

    OK, I get that with Punk they weren't introducing a new character via social media, but given Punk's general gimmick and the build up of him leaving with the belt, even saying he'd defend it in other promotions, then him just resigning almost immediately was enough proof to me that the whole thing was totally staged, including the so-called 'infamous' Pipe Bomb. Just as there's no way they'd have left the mic running that long for an unplanned promo of that nature, there's no way they'd leave their main title on someone who didn't have a contract with them.

    Now look at the current situation. Numerous lower & mid card wrestlers are asking to be released. WWE are refusing because they don't want people signing for AEW. Ambrose though, a proven main eventer and someone who could potentially get some ratings for the new upstart company, gets a months long storyline acknowledging he's leaving and even a special Network event celebrating the end of his tenure with the company.

    That just doesn't happen.

    Now consider the fact WWE have stated on screen they know they haven't been putting out as good a product as they maybe could have and claim they are going to give us more of what we want, and you rapidly realise this is just one step towards that. Look at the majority of the current WWE main event scene. Barring a few obvious exceptions, most main eventers are Indie guys. WWE have even started letting those Indie guys keep their original name & gimmick.

    Couple that with Dean Ambrose being the least successful of the Shield trio, rumours that the final hour of Raw may be moving towards an edgier product and the need for a top heel on the roster; it quickly leads to a conclusion that this is all about rebranding. Sure, you can work wonders these days with nothing more than a decent quality phone, but the Moxley promo that got put out there shortly after Ambrose's release was just a bit too good. Who makes good promo videos? WWE.

    We may not see Dean Ambrose in WWE again, but we will be seeing Jon Moxley there before too long.
    Last edited by DynamiteBillington; 1 Day Ago at 07:29 AM.
    FACT or FICTION: Ladies and Gentlemen, Elias.
    PM me to get involved.


  33. #113
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    That post is full of leaps presented as unarguable logic.

    Sorry, don't buy it. For this to be true, it has to be so much better executed than the Punk angle, and they've already kept their powder dry longer than they managed to do it in the Punk case. Put simply, pulling this off this well requires a level of discipline that they haven't shown themselves capable of not just for years, but for decades, and no amount of things put together can really counter that impression. It's one of those things that will only seem reasonable again once they've proven that they can do it.

    Although to your last point - if Moxley turned up in WWE again once left, technically his leaving wouldn't be a work. There's nothing inconsistent with him leaving, increasing his value, and coming back on his own terms having decided it's the best offer out there. It'd only be a work if this was always the plan all along and he never actually left the payroll.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  34. #114
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
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    I'm not saying anything is unarguable - it's all arguable. That's the point. I also agree that it has to be much better executed than the Punk angle was, which means letting it go on longer. Goal achieved there already.

    But you won't believe they can do it until they prove they can do it? Again, that's kind of the point. They've become aware that people want longer term booking and storylines. We don't believe they can do them any more. This is how they give us what we want.

    And finally....
    this was always the plan all along and he never actually left the payroll.
    Fact.
    FACT or FICTION: Ladies and Gentlemen, Elias.
    PM me to get involved.


  35. #115
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I don't understand how it being arguable can be the point when your post is filled with 'there's no way', 'that just doesn't happen', 'there's no way', 'it quickly leads to a conclusion'. You're arguing that this is clear and definite in your post, but in each case each one of those is at best possible, rather than certain. That doesn't follow logically so far as I can see.

    The problem with the second thing you've said is kind of the point is that it's endlessly circular as an argument. There's actually no way of knowing until it's resolved. I'd suggest in reply that there's no evidence of them actually 'giving us what we want', you could say this would be the first, I'd say that's unlikely, you'd say it is, and we'd continue ad infinitum.

    The final point there was a way of refuting an aspect just of the go home line rather than the whole argument - but as to him being on the payroll, if that's true they aren't only working me and the vast majority of the fans but a lot of people who are a lot better connected than me, and let's face it, WWE usually leaks like a sieve. So if they've managed to stop that, fair play to them. If he hasn't actually left the payroll and they've managed to keep that quiet to the point that informed people are talking about what he's going to do next like they've got stories there, all power to them. But to be honest at this point I'm more inclined to trust that the people who usually have the insider knowledge have it once again. There's a thing called Occam's Razor - the most likely answer is the right one. And I still see it as more likely that the WWE hasn't gone overnight from being unable to do this to being able to do it so well, and with no news of it coming out, that it's got 99% of the wrestling world fooled.

    But if they have, good luck to them. It's one thing that could actually give you a bit of reason for optimism going forward.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  36. #116
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DynamiteBillington View Post
    Look at the majority of the current WWE main event scene. Barring a few obvious exceptions, most main eventers are Indie guys. WWE have even started letting those Indie guys keep their original name & gimmick.
    Umm....who are you referring to?

    The main event guys are:

    Braun Strowman (WWE product)
    Brock Lesnar (WWE product)
    Roman Reigns (WWE product)
    Seth Rollins (9 years in the WWE)
    Daniel Bryan (10 years in the WWE)
    Drew McIntyre (WWE product)
    Kofi Kingston (WWE product)
    Kevin Owens (5 years in the WWE)
    The Miz (WWE product)
    Randy Orton (WWE product)
    Finn Balor (5 years in the WWE)
    You could argue Bobby Lashley and Baron Corbin and now Dolph Ziggler (WWE products)

    AND AJ Styles and Samoa Joe

    Who are the Indie Guys? Everyone not named Syles and Joe have been working for the WWE for years or made by the WWE, or not been able to keep their indie name. So who exactly are you talking about?

    Just because guys paid their dues working for Indie Promotions, does not make them career indie guys. By that logic, Hulk Hogan is NOT a WWE guy, he is a territory guy because he worked for Japan, AWA and then WCW, etc.

    AJ Styles and Joe are called Indie guys, but TNA is not an Indie promotion, regardless of both also working for ROH. Neither is New Japan (or All Japan) with Balor and Styles
    Last edited by Powder; 1 Day Ago at 11:13 AM.

  37. #117
    The Brain
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    I suppose anything could happen, but definitely seems like FACT on Moxley leaving. The fact that they didn't bury Ambrose on the way out indicates two things to me, 1. They thought there was a chance he might change his mind, and 2. They wanted to keep Roman and Rollins (and possibly others) from getting pissed off about what was done to their buddy.

  38. #118
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I think you have fact and fiction the wrong way around again, Mizzie!

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  39. #119
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    I think you have fact and fiction the wrong way around again, Mizzie!
    He does seem to get easily confused these days doesn't he - perhaps his age is starting to get to him....

    But yes, I am putting that side of the argument down as clear and defined facts. If I was arguing the opposite side of things, I'd put the other side of the story as the clear and defined facts. You have to define your facts in support of your argument. If I was speculating on the possibilities, I'd have those facts as 'maybes', but I'm not. I'm putting forward an argument with the facts in support of it.

    That doesn't rule out someone else coming along with opposing facts supporting the other side of the debate.


    Regarding the main event scene, I don't consider a long period of current employment with WWE to be something that stops a wrester being considered an 'indie guy'. This is purely subjective, but here's my take on the guys Powder listed above:
    Obviously we agree on Joe & AJ.

    Braun Strowman (WWE product) - Agreed
    Brock Lesnar (WWE product) - Agreed (although I don't consider him to be main roster)
    Roman Reigns (WWE product) - Agreed
    Seth Rollins (9 years in the WWE) - Indie Guy
    Daniel Bryan (10 years in the WWE) - Indie Guy
    Drew McIntyre (WWE product) - Agreed, but perfected his craft during his time on the Indies (although I agree TNA as an Indie is questionable)
    Kofi Kingston (WWE product) - He's on a good run, but I don't see him as a long term main eventer. He'll be back in the mid card within a year.
    Kevin Owens (5 years in the WWE) - Indie Guy
    The Miz (WWE product) - Agreed
    Randy Orton (WWE product) - Agreed
    Finn Balor (5 years in the WWE) - Indie Guy
    You could argue Bobby Lashley and Baron Corbin and now Dolph Ziggler (WWE products) - I'd argue they aren't really main event, but valid point.

    Hogan is a different kettle of fish altogether. I never like comparing people from such different eras. When Hogan was coming through the ranks, even WWE as we know it today was just another territory.

    Rule out Lesnar as he's not on TV each week, then rule out Lashley, Corbin, Ziggler and Kingston as their long term main event status is questionable. I hate to do it, but when was last time Miz got a genuine run in the main event? Realistically, he's just the top rated mid carder and certainly deserving of a main event slot, but I have to rule him off that list as well. As I said above, I'm not counting Kofi. That means you're left with a list of 10 people.

    Reigns has struggled to be over as a main eventer and Orton is probably more in the position of living legend, the guy there to put over the new guys, but even counting them that list of 10 people still contains 6 Indie Guys, plus one other who despite originally being a WWE product had no credibility at that level until he spent time on the Indies, potentially making an argument for 7 out of 10.
    FACT or FICTION: Ladies and Gentlemen, Elias.
    PM me to get involved.


  40. #120
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    Why do you consider Rollins and Bryan as Indie guys? Seriously.

    Bryan worked for the Indie circuit for 9-10 years where he was good, but he became who he is under the WWE umbrella for the past 10 years. So Bryan is not an indie guy.

    Same for Rollins, but with even less time on the Indie circuit. He spend only 4.5 years in the indie circuit before becoming a WWE guy for the past 9+ years.

    I would agree that if the Briscoe Brothers, who are career ROH/Indie guys came in, they would be indie guys, but not guys that spent the majority of their career as part of the WWE.

    Also the validity of someone being in the main event scene is subjective, but I listed some of the guys because they consistently wrestle the RAW and WWE Champions on RAW and SDL or are in the main feuds, like Miz, Lashley, Corbin etc.
    Last edited by Powder; 22 Hours Ago at 02:47 PM.

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