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  1. #1
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
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    Fact or Fiction: The Forum Series

    Time for the next edition of the Forum Fact or Fiction column. Some interesting topics to get our teeth into, so much so that Iím going to see how this works as a series, posting one topic on an approximate weekly basis dependent partly on my commitments elsewhere and partly on my remembering to actually do it.

    If this is going to work as a series, I'm going to need a constant flow of contributors and topics. Any time you think of something you'd like to see discussed, PM it to me and I'll include both it and you in the next round of discussion. I've got 5 topics to get this going, so I figure that gives us 5 weeks to get topics, volunteers and responses for the next batch.

    Hereís the team for the next few topics:

    DynamiteBillington: Nominated as the Forum equivalent of Xavier Woods. Iíd like to think that meant Iíd done a ďpersonalĒ video with Paige, but unfortunately thatís only been my imagination so far. Maybe one day sheíll reach Sunny levels of depravity so I can afford her?

    FrozenWaffle: LOPís Juice Robinson apparently. Being British, using the words Juice & Robinson together brings thoughts of fruit cordial to my mind, but having googled it I think it was meant to be the former CJ Parker.

    Rob S: Fulfilling the role of mid card superstar, we have LOPís Kofi. Always entertaining and a master of avoiding elimination, the veteran columnist is approaching retirement. Hopefully this makes him become LOPís Terry Funk.

    KingZak: Straight out of LOPís trailer park, the man with the finest double-wide in the whole of the forums. Our own Heath Slater, bringing with him LOPís version of Heathís kids: The Dog. In the words of SirSam, you donít know they exist but they are stars unto themselves.

    Most of the topics have come from the team, however Iím starting with one that came from the comments of the last Main Page Fact or Fiction column. I was going to name & shame the guy who suggested it, but the main page doesnít seem to keep comments indefinitely and itís lost forever. I have no idea who he was or if heíll ever see this, but here goes anywayÖ


    Charlotte Flair will one day challenge for the WWE or Universal heavyweight title.

    DynamiteBillington: This is FICTION. Total and utter FICTION. Thereís no chance in hell of this ever happening. If the topic was just for a female to compete for a male singles title, maybe Iíd have given it some credibility. Yes, the Womenís Revolution has been a good thing and they are now taken seriously as competitors, but they are still a separate division and have to remain that way Ė as is the case with almost all sports. There has only ever been one exception to that: Chyna. If another Chyna was to come along, maybe it would be believable that she breaks into the male mid-card. Chyna even threatened to get into the main event on occasion, but Chyna was a once in a lifetime phenomenon. To be honest though, if she had broken through in the current day & age I donít believe even Chyna would have done what she did. The world has become too politically correct for WWE (and their precious sponsors) to allow male on female violence to be featured in any way. Intergender wrestling is not happening in the WWE any time soon. OK, there will always be the occasional confrontation, such as Rousey/HHH and Asuka/Ellsworth in recent times, but they are always one sided in favour of the female. You wonít see the male getting any significant offence in, and therein lies the problem with intergender wrestling. Sooner or later you have to show a guy beating the crap out of a woman, and thatís just never going to be acceptable.

    Rob S: This is ridiculous. Charlotte Flair may be the best womenís wrestler of all time but FICTION

    FrozenWaffle: Unless WWE changes their rules when it comes to intergender wrestling, I donít see this happening. As we saw with the Asuka/Ellsworth matches, intergender matches in WWE arenít good. Buuuuuuut, with the whole ďWomanís Evolution/RevolutionĒ, anything is possible. You know how much they love ďbreaking recordsĒ and ďmaking historyĒ, this is tough..... My brain says no way, but my gut knows WWE and their recent hard on for womanís wrestling, so iíll go with... FACT.

    KingZak13: Hmm, that is an interesting on to think about. Intergender wrestling has been on the rise the last few years, while WWE take steps to legitimise their womenís division, the rest of the wrestling world took a step beyond and have men and women on the same ground. I am kinda split on my opinion of it on a moral level, but in practice I am all for it, women on the Indyís have been having some pretty good matches with the gents and that is a good step.

    So the real big question here is whether WWE are ever going to adopt this practice. I imagine if they ever do, Charlotte, Asuka, Ruby Riott and a few others I havenít thought of yet are going to be the ones at the forefront. WWE do love Charlotte a lot, she is their top women, so if the intergender wrestling ever does come to WWE I can imagine that Charlotte being the first women to challenge for any title is obvious, and for a world title I can imagine sheíll be one that will be put in line for that.

    The big question is will WWE bring in intergender wrestling. WWE are more a company than a wrestling promotion, and the idea of man on woman violence is something that will most likely have a lot of their sponsors throwing a fit. It really all depends on the social climate at the time, right now I highly doubt it, but in a few years it could be brought in, and then a couple years of build and we get Charlotte going for the world title. So truthfully this is a question of time, how long till the WWE does it and how long does Charlotte have left in the ring.

    Right now, Charlotte is 32 and in the few yearsí time that WWE may introduce intergender wrestling, she could be 35+. The one issue here is going to be whether she wants kids, this part is just my opinion, but I would say all kids should be had by the time you hit 40. So if she does have plans then I imagine sheíll be putting those in place relatively soon.

    I feel like there is a lot mounting against Charlotte challenging for the gold, time is a bitch and could be her downfall. I am looking at it and think that time is not on Charlottes side here, that said she could come back after having a kid or two, so who knows. I am definitely gonna say that we arenít gonna see it in the next ten years or so, but beyond that, who knows. I am gonna go with a loose Fiction for this one.

    Zak: FICTION

    Dog: FACT ham and paper, a SUPER FACT if I ever saw one


    Final Score: I honestly thought this would be a complete whitewash, but the final score is 3-2 in favour of Fiction, closer than it had any right to be. If I recall, even in the comments of the main page column this was originally suggested on the very thought of it was ridiculed (Rob's comment pretty much summed up what was said), yet here we are with only one in the overall score, and that's ignoring the Dog's "super fact" vote which could potentially have counted as two.

    Agree? Disagree? Get commenting and let the world know.
    Last edited by DynamiteBillington; 10-24-2018 at 06:21 AM.

  2. #2
    Forgotten Ponder
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    Damn, now all I can think of is getting a nice glass of Summer Fruits Juice Robinson. I mean, Robinson's Juice.....

    Definitely FICTION and there's not much else I can add that everyone else hasn't said. Chyna was the exception but lets keep her that way. Not much else to her legacy, harsh at it sounds.

  3. #3
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    I wholeheartedly hope this forever remains, as the majority deemed, FICTION. I absolutely abhor inter-gender wrestling. And I think you summed it up perfectly, Dynamite, with this, "Sooner or later you have to show a guy beating the crap out of a woman, and that’s just never going to be acceptable." Spot on.

    Really looking forward to the rest of the topics! Good stuff, guys.

  4. #4
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
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    Start with a little feedback....

    Hoody: No idea if anyone from other countries knows what we're talking about, is Robinson's available outside the UK?

    Pringle: For the most part, I abhor it too. Like I said, things like Asuka/Ellsworth are exceptions, but those exceptions have to be done right.

    Are you guys interested in taking part in a future fact or fiction?

    Moving on, it's time for the next topic.

    By the end of the year, a big (or prominent) name will have left, or been future endeavoured by, the WWE.

    DynamiteBillington: Iím guessing this was suggested to get us to talk about Daniel Bryan. Heís not going anywhere. As for any other big names leaving, nobody springs to mind, assuming we donít count Lesnar in the discussion as heís had one foot out of the door for some time now. We arenít really that far from the end of the year, so to me itís FICTION. If it was by the end of next year I may change my mind and explore the possibilities of someone built on the Indie/Japan scene returning home, but at this point in time nobody significant is going anywhere.

    Rob S: I think this one is a pretty solid FACT and I think weíll see it happen sooner than later. With Brock Lesnar back in the UFC testing pool, it wouldnít surprise me one bit if SummerSlam is the last we see of the so-called Universal Champion. There will almost certainly be others that leave the WWE for one reason or another, so Iím not sure where the line is drawn for ďprominentĒ but for me Lesnar is as close to a lock as it gets.

    FrozenWaffle: You know, when I originally thought about this, I was thinking like Daniel Bryan. I came to the conclusion that heíd stay and guys like Orton, Cena, Rollins, Reigns, Ambrose, etc... would also stay. I was so ready to write this off as FICTION, but then someone came to mind.... Brock Lesnar. I think Summerslam will be his last match and heíll go to UFC and then probably retire and eat moose or whatever he does. So this own, mark as FACT.

    KingZak13: This is an interesting one to think of, I am curious to see what others define as a big name (or prominent for that matter), as for where I stand, I am gonna say any sort of former world, multiple other or someone that is noticeable in their absences. That is what I am gonna count for this one.

    So the first and most obvious name right now is Daniel Bryan. I have stated this multiple times the last few months, but I think he is going to be resigning with the WWE. Another option is possibly John Cena announcing he is on his way out, Hollywood is taking off and WWE is winding down. I could see John announcing his retirement but even still, his retirement wouldnít be until next year so I think that violates the ruling here.

    I think that all of the big names right now are locked in, I donít think we are going to see anymore departures this year, WWE has a place for just about everyone and I doubt they will be firing any more talent this year, and I donít think anyone on the roster is particularly unhappy, some may have requested a brand change come April but even still, no one is going to be leaving. So for me, this is a FICTION.

    Zak: FICTION

    Dog: Got both at the same time, went to round 2. Picked FACT the second time

    Final score: This one was an interesting result. I deliberately discounted Brock from the topic, Zak didn't even consider him so presumably only really thought about the main roster. Without Brock, you get two votes for fiction. Rob & Waffle both went with fact on the basis Brock is likely to be leaving.

    As always, the Dog gets the deciding vote. Even he had to think about it and couldn't make his mind up at first, but it would appear that after some deliberation he must have decided Brock counts so the final answer is FACT.

    Then again, the news this morning is that Brock has a "closed door" meeting with the senior management prior to SummerSlam. When that happened prior to WrestleMania everyone's predictions went out of the window, so who knows what could happen?

  5. #5
    Mediocrity at it's finest kingzak13's Avatar
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    Gonna be honest, I have blocked Brock Lesnar from my memory, the only reason I can remember him is because he has a title defence soon. Whenever he doesn't he doesn't exist to me.

    Surprisingly close voting thus far, I'm a little surprised.
    *Ghostly wailing*

  6. #6
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
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    Zak: Thanks for participating as always. I guess it speaks volumes about the general state of affairs when you're able to block the top champion on the roster from your memory.

    At this very moment though, Wikipedia (which is never wrong...) has him listed as a full time member of the Raw roster. The only wrestlers in the "Unassigned" section who are noted as making "sporadic appearances" are The Rock, John Cena and The Undertaker (Brie Bella is also listed in that section). I assume this means the always-right Wikipedia thinks Lesnar's appearances aren't sporadic.

    I think it's time we have another topic...


    When the new ROH/NJPW show at the Garden happens next April, Kenny Omega, Young Bucks and Cody will all be working for the WWE


    DynamiteBillington: Anyone who calls this a fact is making a very brave call in my opinion. I guess Cody may go back, but I get the impression heís more focussed on proving his worth in the main event than going back to what WWE would offer him. Omega may be a possibility, but itís been rumoured before and didnít happen. To the best of my knowledge theyíve never shown any real interest in the Young Bucks so thatís the least likely. If the question was for just one of them, Iíd go fact. As itís asking for all to have signed, I have to go FICTION.

    Rob S: So this one is actually my own topic and Iím pretty torn on it quite honestly. As someone who loves to see competition in the world of wrestling, I think having a large portion of Bullet Club show up in the WWE is a mistake, however there are quite a few creative options should they arrive. Letís look at it this way, Finn Balor, AJ Styles and the Good Brothers are already there. If you add in Omega, The Bucks and possibly Cody, then we could have an all-out Bullet Club takeover. You build it slowly, teasing the reunion and then all of a sudden Bullet Club creates utter chaos and destruction across brands. Take it to 205 Live. Take it to NXT. Let them wreak havoc. Thereís tons of potential for fun. However, on the flip side, is the WWE interested enough to make something like that work, or do they just want to raid top talent and misuse them. So Iím going to look to my heart for this one and say FICTION, because honestly I think theyíre better off staying where they are.


    FrozenWaffle:
    FICTION. I donít even have to think about that. One of them, two at the most, will be in WWE next year. Possibly Omega, since heís done almost everything possible on the Indies. I know WWE will open their wallets to grab all of them, especially to use at the Takeover opposite the ROH/NJPW show. Eventually, I think theyíll all be under the WWE umbrella, but not that soon.

    KingZak13: Iím torn on this one. I am thinking something along the lines of both answers. Looking at the names listed, I can honestly say that WWE is probably trying to get at least one of those guys right this minute. But I really doubt that all four will be a part of WWE by the time that WrestleMania rolls around, some may even sign that weekend just based on the fact that they are in the same place and could actually discuss it.

    As for which ones would be most likely to go to WWE, I think Cody is most likely because I doubt that he will be returning as Stardust and that is one of the big reasons he left. And a return would also likely see him be given better stories than having to turn shit to gold as he did so many times. As for the other three superstars, I have very, very limited knowledge of them; I donít think that both end up in WWE. I think it all depends how the Bullet Club stuff goes, both sides are quite invested in that story line and arenít just going to leave it high and dry. Should a reasonable exit point emerge over coming months then they could easily make the jump to WWE. But I donít think that all four will be there by WrestleMania so I am gonna say Fact and Fiction Ö Faction Ö Fict Ö letís just call it a tie.

    Zak: some of the superstars, but not all four. TIE.

    Dog: briefly went fact and changed his mind to FICTION at the last second

    Final score: Even with Zak not commiting, this one is pretty unanimous.

  7. #7
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
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    As always, these things need to start with some feedback
    ...
    ...
    ...
    ...
    Hmmm, been a little quiet around here this week.

    Maybe that topic was a little heavy for people? Time for something a little easier to digest, before we get back on the Indie bandwagon for next week's topic. This week though, we have this to discuss:

    One of the Usoís will break out and have a successful singles career.

    DynamiteBillington: Let me start this response by saying Iím assuming a solid mid-card run counts as a successful singles career. That said, aside from the Dudleys how many tag teams can you name that have stuck together for the long term this century? Specifically in the WWE? Iíd love to see tag teams become a career long commitment, but thatís just not the way it happens anymore. Sooner or later, WWEís ďCreativeĒ team will run out of ideas and write a story that splits them up and leads to a match between them. Unless we get a genuine tag team revolution which brings back the glory days where being in a tag team was a lifelong commitment, I donít see that changing any time soon. The most important thing is that they then both evolve into totally separate characters (i.e. like Rollins and Ambrose have since the Shield) rather than staying exactly the same (like Reigns), unfortunately thatís dependent on that ďCreativeĒ team that split them in the first place. However, the Usoís are both talented guys, so Iím sure they can make the best of whatever theyíre given and at least one of them will get a decent run. It may be a risky call, but as much as I donít want to see it (#tagteam4life!!) Iím going with FACT on this one.

    Rob S: I love the Usoís as a team. It took them a while to find their footing, but eventually they got there. The street-wise brothers who run the Uso Penitentiary have provided some of the best tag-team matches in recent history against any number of teams. As they would say, they have the division LOCKED DOWN. Thereís not one thing wrong with remaining a team. Some of the most successful wrestlers in history stayed a team; teams like the Road Warriors, Midnight Express, Rock and Roll Express, and Demolition. At times theyíll have their singles opportunites, but a ďsuccessful singles careerĒ is highly unlikely unless one of them gets hurt or released. Straight FICTION on this one.

    FrozenWaffle: The Usoís have been a tag team since they debuted, way back in 2010. Theyíve been together longer than The Hardyís(theyíve split and gotten back together), Edge & Christian, New Day, and even the NWO and DX. Hell, in 2015 one of them got injured and instead of pushing the other, they sidelined him. I think I feel pretty confident that itís going to be FICTION.

    KingZak13: You know, as much as I enjoy The Usos, I highly doubt that they are ever going to be separated to have a successful singles career, the only way I can see this happening is if one suffers a career ending injury and I donít think we should be looking down that route. I canít see The Usos as separate entities and I think a lot of fans donít too, they are a team and I donít see a non-tag team push coming either manís way. Honestly it is far from a bad thing, at this point is any team more synonymous with tag wrestling in WWE than The Usos. No, they are WWE tag wrestling and I can guarantee that when all is said and done, they are going into the Hall of Fame.

    Zak: FICTION

    Dog: FICTION, immediately

    Final Score: 4-1 against me! Had a feeling this one may go this way, and I hope everyone else is proved right. To be honest, I think if they can survive together until Vince retires, HHH will have the sense to keep them together forever. The longer Vince stays in charge, the more likely the brother v brother storyline is. Maybe I just need to learn to have faith in the system as the other guys obviously have?

  8. #8
    Mediocrity at it's finest kingzak13's Avatar
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    I don't think even Vince is dumb enough to split The Usos. I reckon the idea may have been pitched at some point but The Usos turned it down since they are a team. I don't think The Usos want to split up as a team, and I don't think that any one else really wants to split them up either.
    *Ghostly wailing*

  9. #9
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
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    Zak - I sincerely hope you're right & I'm wrong. I just know WWE go hot & cold on their tag division so often, staying together for life may not be feasible. That said, no matter how cold the division gets it still needs teams, so I hope they're the team that stays together.

    On to the next topic - this is the last topic with the current team, so hopefully I get the input for the next round in time to post again next week!

    With all the success they've had recently, both with sell-out crowds and the show in Madison Square Garden opposite NXT Takeover next year.... in the next 5 years, NJPW/ROH will successfully hold a stadium show in the US, ala WrestleMania?

    DynamiteBillington: Itís ambitious, but itís definitely feasible. As more and more fans rebel against Vinceís vision of what he wants WWE to be and as those promotions get more and more available to the American audience, it becomes more and more likely that it happens. As those promotions develop more exposure, they also become a more viable prospect as an alternative employer to the WWE roster and you could well end up with some relatively big names jumping ship Ė especially those like Nakamura and Kevin Owens who may become unhappy with their roster positioning within WWE. A move back to where they came gets them an instant main event slot. Cody Rhodes has also proven that you donít need to be the main event guy in WWE to become the main event elsewhere. It only takes a few more guys like Cody to have the balls to leave and take their chances at what is currently a smaller promotion for that company to experience significant growth. Like I said at the start, itís ambitious but itís definitely feasible. Itís risky, but Iím going to go with FACT.

    Rob S: Much is going to depend on how well the MSG show sells as to how big the NJPW/ROH can get. ďAll InĒ sold out quickly, but the NJPW show at the Cow Palace only did OK in terms of ticket sales. Since weíre talking about the next five years, Iíd say the potential is certainly there for growth, but will Vince and the WWE juggernaut allow them to get that big. Weíve seen the talent raids over the recent years as a means to try and halt competition. Weíve also seen the WWE try and stop ROH from getting into MSG. Thankfully that didnít occur and theyíll be getting their spot there during the biggest weekend in wrestling. Iíd love for someone, anyone to get serious about putting pressure on the WWE, so in the pipe dream world that Iím living in as I type this, Iím going to say FACT. Itís not happening, but thatís my answer and Iím sticking to it.

    FrozenWaffle: ROHís biggest show in history had just over 6,000 attending. All In, which has quite a few NJPW wrestlers, sold over 10,000 seats. Theyíre making progress, but it think itíll be pretty tough to sell 70,000+ seats. You would need so epic first time encounters, like Bryan vs Okada and Punk vs Omega, to even come close. Not saying itís impossible, but for now iíll go with FICTION.

    KingZak13: Long term thinking is always a bit difficult, so letís start from where we are right now. NJPW and ROH are having a lot of success lately, All-in has sold terrifically and NJPW tends to be raved about every time they have a PPV for about a fortnight. The big problem I see is the fact they have the MSG show opposite a WWE show. Had it been just in WrestleMania week then I can see it being a massive success but they have chosen to put it opposite wrestlingís juggernaut.

    Now had this been opposite WrestleMania then I could see some of us IWC people going to the show given the disappointing WrestleManiaís of late. However this isnít opposite WrestleMania, it is opposite Takeover. NXT is the best brand in wrestling, combining the Indy quality and feel with the WWEís production value, Takeover does not disappoint when it comes to anything. And given the choice between the as yet named ROH show and Takeover, I can firmly say that unless ROH obtain a big WWE name in the next few months, they arenít going to be able to stand to the force of Takeover.

    I think the MSG show is likely going to be a bit of a flop from an attendance standpoint, so I guess the question will be can they recover from it. I think a recovery is likely as they are doing solid business these days, but the one thing that wonít recover is their pride, if it flops then I can see the expansion to a big stadium WrestleMania-esque show being put on the back burners for a fair while.

    I think they could get there within the few years even with the financial setback of a failed MSG show, but they would be clever not to schedule it in the same place and same time as a WWE PPV. But will they? I am going to be slightly difficult and say that they wonít within five years, however in the next six or seven then I could see them going ahead with it. So Fiction for me

    Zak: FICTION
    Dog: FACT

    Final score: 3-2. Very close, but Fact just about edges this one. Whether it's ROH, NJPW or a mix of the two organised by the All In guys, if this happens it would mean the industry as a whole is in a great place.

  10. #10
    First off, I think this tried and true concept is perfect for a CF series. With the amount of chatty topics circulating on the MP, you could keep this going year-round if Dynamite Bill so desired. Speaking of which, what do you prefer to be called? I need a shorter nickname to work with here!


    As for New Japan or Ring of Honor selling out a stadium, I'm gonna lean towards FICTION. We could very well see last week's All In show spawn various sequels and turn into the kind of monster that TakeOver is today. If they keep adding bigger stars and more diversity to each card, I wouldn't be that surprised if either promotion packed 20,000 into an arena a year or two from now. Selling 60-80,000 tickets however is a whole 'nother ballgame. I'd love for NJPW or ROH to do so for competition's sake and perhaps they will but not that soon. These things take time.


    I'll have to double back and read the previous entries. Psyched to be a part of this in the near future.
    Last edited by SkitZ; 09-07-2018 at 09:58 PM.

  11. #11
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
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    Most people go with Dyno, but I'll answer to pretty much anything! (The real name's Gary)

    I'm definitely hoping to keep this thread going - it's just a bit dependent on thinking of new topics and getting responses back from people. And also varying the people involved from time to time, the pool is still a little thin but hopefully as time goes by things will pick up and we'll get back to where we once were around here.

    My inbox is always open for new topics and new volunteers....
    Last edited by DynamiteBillington; 09-09-2018 at 12:37 PM.

  12. #12
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
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    OK, so it's been longer than I'd hoped since the last post. I'm still waiting on replies from some of you for the next round of topics, but I figured it may spark a bit of discussion and hopefully remind people to get back to me if I get another post in.

    Also, we have a new team. You know who we all are, so no introductions necessary, lets just get straight down to business:

    Evolution will see all the Womenís titles change hands

    Dynamite Billington: When this topic was first raised, Iíd have been fairly confident in calling it a fact. Unfortunately, it was suggested before SummerSlam and Iím writing this after SummerSlam, so now we have Rousey holding a title. She isnít losing any time soon, so thatís pretty much killed off any discussion on this one. FICTION.

    Kleckamania: FICTION. Absolute fiction. For one reason... Ronda Rousey. She's not losing her belt this quick. However, I could see every other title change hands. The way Becky Lynch is on fire at the moment could equate to her getting that Smackdown Women's title sooner rather than later, and I could easily see Shayna Baszler reclaim the NXT Women's Championship over gentle "pirate" Kairi Sane as a Four Horsewomen build looms. Rousey though will probably hold the RAW title for a very long time- I'd say straight through Wrestlemania next year easily.

    KingZak13: Had you asked me this prior to SummerSlam, I would have said that it was most likely, as we would see Alexa cheat a win, Shayna keep her gold and Becky/Charlotte looking at swapping the title over a heated rivalry Ö well I guess that last part is still possible. But now, we have new champion Kairi, likely having a rematch with Shayna at Evolution, where I expect her to pull out another win and send Shayna to the main roster, meanwhile we will also see Ronda Rousey destroy whoever is put in front of her (I pray it isnít Nikki), so right now it looks as if that at least two titles will be staying where they are currently. Evolution should have been womens WrestleMania, being the finish of several big stories, instead shit is just being thrown at the wall to see what sticks, in all honesty I am feeling more and more confident saying that it wonít be main roster show of the year in the MP Fact or Fiction. This is a tragic fiction.

    Dog: bit and ripped the question, not completely, only parital rip, chose Fact, then spent a good few seconds just licking the Fiction ham before eating it.

    Zak: FICTION

    Dog: FACT

    Final Score: I think it's safe to say putting the title on the female Brock Lesnar has ruined any discussion we could have had here. Despite being a proponent of part timers in many of my columns, the Women's roster is not strong enough at this point in time to handle being treated in this way. Rousey is worse for the Women's title than Lesnar was for the Men's.

  13. #13
    The Brain
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    Gotta agree with consensus, seems unlikely Rousey will lose the title so soon. Totally disagree that it's a bad thing though, and vehemently disagree that Rousey is worse for the women than Lesnar was for the men!

  14. #14
    Mediocrity at it's finest kingzak13's Avatar
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    Lesnar at the top of the mens division made the title irrelevant and put a huge ceiling on everyone.

    While the second half may be true for Rousey, at least she still shows up to defend every PPV and appears on a majority of Raws, I definitely wouldn't say she is elevating the womens division but she is far from hurting it either.
    *Ghostly wailing*

  15. #15
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
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    Miz, Zak - you have inspired a column!

  16. #16
    Good discussion! I don't see Rousey losing the title so soon either. She could very well hold it at least past the Rumble especially if WWE goes w/ the rumored Rousey/Flair at WM. Her elevating the women's division will be a trickle down effect in that the attention drawn to her will shine a light on the others.

    Twitter: @libsuperstar

  17. #17
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
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    Thanks Lib... Want to get involved? Still waiting on more responses for some of the other topics I've got in the pipeline if you're interested?

    If you think she's elevating the division I'm surprised you haven't had a say on my other column...

  18. #18
    All the Womens Championship holders across the three brands won the title fairly recently so I doubt that any of them will lose the title at Evolution. I'm a little afraid when it comes to Becky Lynch because as you all know WWE loves ruining a good thing.

    Enjoying this series thus far.

  19. #19
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
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    A quick thanks to you all for the feedback on the topics so far. I've spent the last couple of weeks spamming the CF regulars to get more responses, and you guys are coming through for me, so we have even more contributors coming in to the column. Hopefully we can keep it up and this thread can go on forever!

    There are still a few people I'm awaiting responses for, but I figure this next topic needs posting sooner rather than later. Some of the responses were sent a few weeks ago, some a few days ago, but ALL were sent in before everything changed on Monday night. This story has moved on, but hopefully that will prove to be the catalyst for some extra discussion on the topic:


    Gargano/Ciampa is a better story than Ambrose/Rollins


    Dynamite Billington: Last time I watched NXT on a regular basis, Gargano & Ciampa were still a team. I think the last NXT show I watched was the one where Ciampa turned heel & attacked Gargano. To cover the time in between, Iíve looked up the overall summary of their feud, which mostly seems to consist of Gargano being out injured, then coming back to get revengeÖ.and so far thatís where weíve got to.

    To date, nothing about this stands out from every other tag team break up feud WWE have ever done. And theyíve done a lot of them, which disappoints me. In the past 20 years, I canít actually think of a tag team they havenít done it with aside from the Dudleys (even that may be more a lack of memory). Iím a firm believer that a tag team is for life, not just a storyline.

    Ambrose & Rollins though? Theyíve completed the standard team break up story and moved on through several subsequent phases of their story. Sam Plan did a good column on the main page covering that one, so I wonít go into detail, go read it for yourself (https://lordsofpain.net/just-busines...-chapters-1-4/).

    Based on the fact Gargano/Ciampa is still in itís first chapter (and we donít even know if there will be subsequent chapters), this has to be FICTION.


    Kleckamania: FACT. Actually- SUPER FACT. It's not even close. I will say though, if Dean and Seth had a chance to create their own narrative in NXT like Tommaso and Johnny do, it would be much closer. But Dean and Seth have to make do with what main roster creative give them, which is often nonsensical garbage honestly. I am not a huge fan of Tommaso and Johnny's narrative via wrestling moves, but overall, their story is leagues better. The compelling nature of a tag team unraveling into bitter hatred towards one another tells itself, and these two guys have sold it so very well to top it off. Truly one of the very best rivalries in WWE history at this point for me.


    MizFan: I'm the wrong person to ask for sure on this one, but just from my very vague impression I'll say FACT. People seem to have responded better to Gargano/Ciampa and it seems to be a tighter, more engaging story.


    KingZak13: A lot of parallels can be drawn between Ambrose/Rollins and Gargano/Ciampa, both sides were as close as brothers, both are considered the most dastardly turns of the modern era, and both sides just kept escalating. Even injury didnít stop the hatred these two pairings held for each other. And to top off the similarities, the next chapter is on itís way to build to WM/Takeover.

    The challenge here is that both stories are by and large the same. The only difference being that Rollins turned on Ambrose for greed while Ciampa did it because he was done with Gargano. The bad blood between these couplings keep them the most engaging feuds of the modern era Ö go ahead, name a better one.

    Ambrose and Rollins do have the advantage here as their arc has been going on longer, we have seen the turn, Ambrose chase and eventually gain his revenge, Rollins see the error of his ways and work towards redemption that was finally given, leading to a genuinely heartfelt moment.

    Right now, Gargano/Ciampa is comparatively in itís infancy. Weíve seen the turn and the toll it took on Garganoís psyche, then Ciampa try and destroy Gargano, only to be rebuked, leading to an even more desperate Ciampa, leading to Ciampa getting the win and then using Garganoís obsession to capture gold. Ciampa is arguably a better heel than Seth was, though Iíd put Gargano and Ambrose on par.

    As of this second, I donít think that Gargano/Ciampa has surpassed the Shield split, it peaks higher at some points but there is just more to Ambrose/Rollins, once we reach the end of this chapter of Gargano/Ciampa weíll have a more clear idea of where this is, though by then the next chapter of Ambrose/Rollins could easily be underway. For right now I am going to say Fiction.

    Dog: Bit the question in half. Sniffed Fiction but went Fact in the end

    Zak: FICTION
    Dog: FACT


    Don Franc: FICTION There could be a hint of bias on my part here as the Ambrose/Rollins feud happens to be one of my favourite feuds of all time, but dammit if I wasn't engrossed by the Ambrose/Rollins saga. Betrayal is one of the best storylines in any form of scripted entertainment and I feel like Ambrose/Rollins broke new ground with their betrayal storyline. A wrestler becoming obsessed with revenge isn't something we haven't seen before but Dean played the part so damn well. And let's not forget the ground-breaking matches they had together. The one thing that is needed in a betrayal storyline is for fans to actually care that the team involved broke up and that is something that both of these teams had in common. But in my opinion, I feel like Ambrose/Rollins was executed better. Not to mention the injury to Ciampa might have derailed certain plans in the beginning.


    Prime Time: I donít rave about the matches the way some people do, but this is the WWE angle Iíve been the most invested in over the past however many years. Itís a quality piece of TV and with more traditional wrestling minds massaging it, could have been a classic for the ages. Itís a stone-cold FACT for me.


    Final Score: Current score is 4-3 in favour of FACT, so that makes Gargano/Ciampa the winner. Does Dean's heel turn change things? Lets hear from you....

  20. #20
    The Brain
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    I get why some people are into the Dean turn, but I'm not really feeling it. Piggy backing off the cancer thing to get heat doesn't do much for me. I'm not even saying they shouldn't have done it, necessarily, just that it doesn't appeal to me personally.

    I do think turning Dean was the way to go and I think good things will come out of it.

  21. #21
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DynamiteBillington View Post
    Kleck: [...]I will say though, if Dean and Seth had a chance to create their own narrative in NXT like Tommaso and Johnny do, it would be much closer.
    This is the essence of it for me. It's not that I think Ciampa and Gargano are necessarily better than Ambrose and Rollins, it's that they've been given better tools and their story has been fostered in an environment that is more conducive to good storytelling. I'm not even sure that genuinely good storytelling is even possible anymore within the confines of the WWE main roster format. I've got the beginnings of a working theory that they only reason anyone thinks it is that as wrestling fans they've kept watching out of loyalty and inevitably lowered their standards over the years in line with what they've been seeing, so that now 'passable' rates as 'great' or 'genius'. It does seem to me that it's a routine thing now that in a show where nothing seems to matter for 2 hrs or more, anything that actually strikes you as worth watching gets heralded as if it's being performed by the lovechild of Buddy Rogers and Lou Thesz.


    And as it was mentioned, I actually think the injury to Ciampa, while it may have derailed some things initially, actually ended up helping in the long term. That return from injury, letting the whole thing bubble under before bringing it back to the surface, has given it such a different (and dare I say more epic) feeling from the usual rinse and repeat of something happens and it immediately plays out over the next couple of PPV cycles which has become the predictable WWE trope in the last 15 years or so.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  22. #22
    The Brain
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    Does the recent development with Gargano change anyone's opinion on this? I'm reserving judgment but I could see it souring things for some people, depending on how it plays out.

  23. #23
    Glad to have been a part of this Dyno. It looks like the odds were in the favour of Ciampa/Gargano but I think what attributes to that is the fact that NXT is more respected than the main roster. Dean and Seth was just on another level though and I'm looking forward to their next chapter. However, I have to admit really digging that the Ciampa/Gargano feud caused Johnny to go dark.

  24. #24
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    Crap, sorry I didn't get to this Dyno (new kid and all).

    I remember reading this, seeing the questions and thinking 'did he write this for me?'

    While Ciampa and Gargano have told a really cool story this year, especially with the new wrinkle of Johnny be Bad what you said at the start is so true Dyno. These guys are still in their first chapter whereas Dean and Seth are in their fifth year.

    It is hard for me not to rave about Dean and Seth but I'll just say that the narrative depth to their characters and story together has never been matched by any other pairing. I don't care who you out them against, DX, Brothers of Destruction, no one has told a more complete tale that has shown movement and progression in the characters in the same way.

    They also have stellar matches to back it up.

    Maybe one day Gargano & Ciampa will rival Dean and Seth but right now they should consider it a compliment they can get mentioned in the same sentence.



    @Sir_Samuel

  25. #25
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
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    Still time for you to join in with the rest of the topics

  26. #26
    The Brain
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    especially with the new wrinkle of Johnny be Bad

  27. #27
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
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    Thanks all taking part, and thanks for the feedback, it seems that particular topic could go on for a long time with both stories being an ongoing thing.

    I've got a few more topics ready & waiting to be sent out, so expect me to be spamming the forum's via PM again soon!

    I do still have a few topics ready & waiting to go though, so it's time for a new one. Hot (ish) on the heels of Evolution, lets have another topic discussing the future of the female part of the roster...


    The Bella's will be the inaugural Women's Tag Champions


    DynamiteBillington: To me, The Bellaís represent everything the Womenís Revolution fought against. They fit the old mould of Diva perfectly, they even have their own TV show to prove it. If it wasnít for their other halves, I suspect theyíd have been long gone from the WWE by now. If WWE was based on genuine competition, they would get absolutely slaughtered by most of the other women on the roster, but it isnít and they play their parts well. Theyíre also the only females who could be seen as a long term tag team. Any other team will essentially be two singles wrestlers thrown together as a pair specifically for whatever tournament is put together as & when the inevitable Womenís Tag Championship is introduced.

    And therein lies the issue with any other pairing getting these belts. When WWE pair two singles wrestlers together for a tag run, it inevitably ends up with them splitting when one or the other turns heel on their partner. With the Bellaís, you get the closest thing the women have to a #TagTeamForLife. Despite my scepticism about the Usoís earlier in the thread, WWE obviously realise the Bellaís have some mainstream appeal due to their own show and are extremely unlikely to split them. I also know WWE like having their belts seen in as many places as possible. Getting them on the Bellaís then having them make appearances promoting their own show with the belts in tow promotes the WWE.

    I think all of that guarantees them time as champions. Not knowing a definitive timescale for when the belts are likely to appear makes it slightly harder to predict (and personally Iím not convinced Womenís Tag Titles are necessary at this point in time), but if it coincided with a new series of their TV show it would be a guaranteed fact. As things stand, itís only a probable fact. Facts are still facts though, so Iím going FACT.


    Kleckamania: FICTION. Though this is the second most likely female tag team to win the titles I think.

    Hell, part of me even thinks that the reason Sasha Banks and Bailey were even written into a tag team was because they wanted to throw the tag titles on them first. And it writes itself, despite their tag team feeling like a pro wrestling lobotomy. Eventually one turns heel, team Hug and Hurl loses the straps, then they have a brand new chapter in their rivalry. WWE has been trying too hard to push these two ladies the past few years, and we know that when WWE wants something to work, it is going to happen whether we are lukewarm to it, or Arctic ice cold. Which is why they will win the tag titles first.

    I do think the Bellas will win those belts later on though, just not as the inaugural champs.


    MizFan: Probably FACT, simply because I can't think of anybody who would even be a meaningful contender!


    KingZak13: Fucking hell I hope not.

    In all seriousness, the Bellaís time as wrestlers is pretty much over, they are basically part timers now, and I think we can all agree that part timers holding titles is bullshit. The Bellas are the most successful women of the divas era, but are basically outclassed by every women on the roster at this point.

    Now I know that there has been a leaked card for the show, and on that list it does list off a womens tag title match, featuring the Iconics, Sonya and Mandy, The Divas of Doom and Alicia Fox and Kelly Kelly for whatever reason. However upon research this card is in fact fake Ö kinda good that it is since it went way to heavily on the nostalgia side.

    Now, Nikki vs Ronda Rousey seems all but locked in for Evolution, so thankfully if the titles are announced then we wonít be seeing them win it there. And I doubt WWE will be doing a WrestleMania for them so thankfully I think this may well be Fiction

    Honestly, I think the question may be more should we get womens tag titles? And right now, that is Fiction too. And for all the reasons that it could be, the reason I think that is because WWE donít have enough TV time Ö I know that sounds dumb but hear me out.

    Back when the Cruiserweight title was on Raw, it always felt like a last minute addition, and I reckon the same sort of thing would happen to Womens tag titles, youíve seen how WWE can mistreat their male tag titles and those divisions have actual depth to them, for the women, it would be an endless feud between Banks/Bayley and the Riott Squadd Ö no one wants that Ö even though it has pretty much already been happening. So really, I donít think WWE should have a womens tag title until they actually make a womens only show, like a Raw/SmackDown for women, and then once they establish a womens world title (merge the Raw/SmackDown belts) and then create the womens tag title Ö actually I am really starting to like this idea, I reckon there might be a column in here somewhere.

    But anyway, back to the question Ö itís Fiction.

    Zak: FICTION
    Dog: Wanted question in his mouth, realised there was no ham and quickly released, immediately went Fiction, missed and picked FICTION again


    Don Franc: FACT, FACT and more FACT. This just needs to happen. They will bring popularity to the belts based off of their reality shows and they are an actual tag team. The only other female tag teams are The Riot Squad and The Iconics. I believe that either of the afore-mentioned teams qualify for being the tag team champions but I think The Bellas need to be inaugural champions. That might not be a popular sentiment, especially considering that I'm basing my reasoning off of them being reality stars. But in order to get more eyes on the division they can start out as champions. Besides, I don't think Nikki is a bad wrester AT ALL. I would hope she does most of the work and carries Brie and by doing that they will be able to put on big matches. Considering that there aren't any face opponents I'd say they'd probably get beaten by a friendship team like Sasha/Bailey for the belts. Nevertheless, The Bellas should undoubtedly be inaugural Womens Tag Team Champions.


    Prime Time: I donít really have an opinion on this but Iíll say FACT because it sounds like the kind of thing they might do.


    Final Score: 4-3 to FACT. Fairly close, but a win is a win.

  28. #28
    Mediocrity at it's finest kingzak13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DynamiteBillington View Post

    KingZak13: for the women, it would be an endless feud between Banks/Bayley and the Riott Squadd … no one wants that … even though it has pretty much already been happening.
    I wrote this line back in September and that feud is still going. I think it may outlast us all.

    I get that The Bellas are an actual tag team, but I can't fathom them being actual champions in 2018, there are so many others from the full time roster that can be chosen that we don't need part time Bellas getting any accolades.
    *Ghostly wailing*

  29. #29
    The Brain
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    Zak, this is WWE. Giving titles to people not on the full time roster is their favorite thing.

  30. #30
    Zak your point is valid but in my opinion putti g the titles on the belts will make it feel big and give it some credibility. Then after a brief run they can always lose the titles to a better team who would hold the belts for a longer period of time. I tho k the heat they could transfer from lodi g the belts would be a good rub to build a good tag team title run off of.

  31. #31
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
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    It seems the feedback has been done for me!

    Are lengthy feuds a problem though? When I think about the likes of HBK/Bret, Rock/Austin and Miz/Bryan, I think classic. I don't think about how they went on too long....

    Are we ready for a new topic?

    I said ARE. WE. READY. for a new topic?

    If Triple H continues to perform well at WrestleMania he will one day usurp the role of Mr. WrestleMania.


    Dynamite Billington: The problem with this topic is that title is essentially given by the WWE via the commentators putting the idea into our heads. HHH the character may well be arrogant enough to do this, but the man behind HHH, Paul Levesque, is sensible enough to see that such a title goes to someone who can build on it and make it their longer term gimmick. It will be a long time till anyone else is given the moniker, but for the foreseeable future this title remains in good hands with HBK. FICTION.


    Kleckamania: FICTION. And that is coming from someone that honestly hates Shawn Michaels. Though I was never a huge HHH fan either, but the average fan will point to HBK over Trips anyday as Mr. Wrestlemania. HBK's overselling, overly athletic, acrobatic style suits the grandest stage much better- he was built for those kind of events. Though, honestly, I'd say Triple H is a better overall wrestler on average over the year. Now if the debate was between HBK, and Taker... I'd be picking different.


    MizFan: Well this is a big FICTION because Triple H is 2 for 8 when it comes to having actually good matches at Wrestlemania this decade. And only 1 of those 2 was match of the night anyway, and Bryan had to drag him there! But if they ever give out an award for who has the most tediously long matches at Wrestlemania, he'll be a shoe in. This has been another edition of mizfan trolls Triple H fans, thank you and goodnight.


    KingZak13: This is something of a tough one. I have looked at the stats and should Trips continue to have great matches at WM, he will one day surpass Michaels on my list. Hence why I think this is a possibility. Think about Triple Hís WrestleMania matches the last few years, there worst ones have been okay, and the better ones are Match of the Year contenders, in some cases (such as WM33) they even win that award.

    The biggest question is at what point did Shawn manage to gain the Mr. WrestleMania nickname, from what I can gather it was after several stellar performances starting with his ladder match with Razor Ramon. And based on my stat table, from that point on Michaels never had a WM match less than 3.75 stars (WM22 was only 3.25 but that was more a special match than actual match), so that was a streak of 10, 11, 12, 14, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26. That is twelve quality matches in a row (with a lone 3.25 at 22), so can Triple H replicate it.

    With a quick glance at the stats, Triple H actually isnít as stable in those standings as you would think, between WM 12 and WM22 he only had one five star and a couple 3.75s, but mostly around the 2-3 star range. From WM24 to WM34 it is better, he has several matches ranging between 3.5 and 4.75 stars but there are still a handful of matches that arenít as good.

    In total Shawn has 13 matches over 3.5 stars (the range I would say begins the great) with twelve of those in a row, meanwhile Triple H has only reached 10 and doesnít even break five in a row. In my head this one was actually much closer, Shawn is definitely Mr. WrestleMania and I donít see Trips claiming that any time soon. FICTION

    Dog: tried to bite question, but ended up spitting out the Fact paper from the previous question Ö he then immediately went Fact

    Zak: FICTION
    Dog: FACT


    Don Franc: HHH always had big matches at Wrestlemania and that created a real spectacle for his Wrestlemania legacy. And to be honest, I can't remember the last time HHH had a bad match at Wrestlemania. Not mention the fact that he put a lot of guys over at show of shows so I'd say that he definitely could be in the running for being crowned Mr. Wrestlemania. On top of that, he has 12 more active years than Mr. Wrestlemania due to Shawn's injury and retirement so he was able to add a few more great matches to his list of Wrestlemania bouts. However, Shawn almost built the latter stages of his career around being Mr. Wrestlemania and I think you have to compare both importance and quality of matches when determining if HHH could stand a chance of usurping Shawn and because of that I just don't see it happening. Remember, where HHH might have had big matches Shawn had big matches and produced the quality simultaneously. Hell, Shawn was able to make a match involving Vince McMahon exciting. Shawn has just had too many big moments at Wrestlemania to not be Mr. Wrestlemania. FICTION


    Prime Time: FICTION. Shawn Michaelsí status as Mr Wrestlemania is partly about his performances, but also partly about who he is and what he is seen to represent. Thereís a lot of chaff amongst the wheat of Michaelsí Wrestlemania outings, but that doesnít seem to matter. Truth is, Hunter will never be held with the kind of fondness that HBK is, and it wonít matter if he wrestles nine-star classics at the next three Manias. Itís just not going to happen for him.


    Final score: Virtually unanimous in favour of Fiction. Had a feeling it may go that way, with only the dog voting fact. Maybe that was a particularly nice looking piece of ham? I have to say though, I loved how much thought & analysis Zak used in his own response for this one.

  32. #32
    Kleck and Zak really dove deep into this with some hardcore facts. Like you, Dyno, I'm not surprise Shawn won this so dominantly.

  33. #33
    The Brain
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    So all along, Zak's dog was actually Mazza. Amazing, who'd have guessed?

  34. #34
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
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    Wait, does that mean Zak's dog made the main page (at least for a COTM, surely? ) before Zak? Who'da thought...
    Last edited by DynamiteBillington; 4 Weeks Ago at 04:31 PM.

  35. #35
    Mediocrity at it's finest kingzak13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DynamiteBillington View Post
    Wait, does that mean Zak's dog made the main page (at least for a COTM, surely? ) before Zak? Who'da thought...
    It wouldn't surprise me if that's what he got up to while everyone was sleeping.
    *Ghostly wailing*

  36. #36
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
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    Some entertaining comments from that last topic! Unfortunately Zak's dog has not joined us for the latest topic, hopefully he'll be back soon.

    Time for a new topic....

    There should not be another Women’s Royal Rumble for the foreseeable future

    MizFan: This is so obviously FICTION that I'm surprised the question was even posed. By and large fans seem to have quite enjoyed last year's female Rumble, and I can't think of why they wouldn't run it again since it was successful. Speaking just for myself, the women's Rumble was my favorite non-205 Live WWE match I've seen all year, and if they don't run another one I'll be bitterly disappointed.

    Burn11nMyLight: FICTION. What? Is there some rumor or backlash I'm not understanding? While I hated that The Bella Twins were in the final 4 last year, AND Asuka has done nothing interesting since then, we can't condemn The Rumble just because the booking that followed it has been garbage. Or else we'd have no men's Royal Rumble, either. It is tough to do both Rumbles on the same show, but that match type is so special that we can watch 2 hours of it once a year.

    Don Franc: I quite enjoy the Women's Royal Rumble. It helps indicate a clear number one contender for the Women's Championship. Besides, it provides WWE with an opportunity to bring back former superstars that helped paved the way for the women of today. The only way there shouldn't be a Women's Royal Rumble next year is if Ronda and Becky are still champions and they face off at 'Mania. Besides that though, this is FICTION.

    Prime Time: I’d say this is probably FICTION but I’m not sure you can keep doing it on the same night. Although maybe that will raise question marks of another sort if you bump the Rumble to another, non-PPV night. It’s a tough question, and while I admire them for having a women’s Rumble I think they’ve made a rod for their own backs with this.

    Final Score: 4 responses, 4 votes for FICTION. Unfortunately, you’re all wrong. I’ll be posting the correct answer on Monday.

  37. #37
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    What if they alternated years? Have the rumble for the women one year and decide the menís Mania match at Elimination Chamber or something. Then do the opposite the following year.

  38. #38
    Given how much they've built up women's wrestling over the past 3-4 years (as well as the probability that two of them will headline the upcoming Mania), it would seem pretty counterproductive if the female Rumble match didn't become an annual thing. I just hope we see a stronger ratio of current talent over former stars moving forward. Sprinkle in a few surprises each January but reward those working year-round (yes even the less exciting chicks). The inclusion of a women's Royal Rumble match grants them equal attention on the Road to WrestleMania and creates anticipation in who the winner will choose to face at the Show of Shows. Don't be so discriminatory, Dyno!

  39. #39
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    I was only suggesting alternating years in order to not have two separate hour long plus matches on the same card. The year the women donít have the Rumble match, you can give them some other high profile match in either December or February to set up their title match at Mania. It wouldnít seem like itís pushing them back down the card since the men would have to do the same thing the next year.

  40. #40
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
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    meandi: Trouble is, even every other year doesn't help. The women's evolution has been great, but as an annual or even bi-annual thing it just highlights the weaknesses of the women's roster.

    Skitz: It's not being discriminatory, it's just facts. You say yourself that they need a higher proportion of full timers than the original one, but there aren't enough women on the roster to make that happen. Go check out my latest column for the facts and stats.

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