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Thread: Roman Reigns

  1. #1
    Super Moderator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Roman Reigns

    Roman's a controversial figure. In the past week I've seen someone say that he's got nothing to offer, and someone else say he has all the tools but the way he's booked is terrible. Personally, I tend to come down somewhere between those two positions. Either way, I did see it pointed out by an older wrestler that in the territories, if someone hadn't gotten over by this point, there's no way they'd still be working - never mind featured as a top star.

    But regardless, as long as he's featured prominently, he's going to be a major talking point. I'm a bit behind the times on RAW but I hear they're trying to put him with Mahal?

  2. #2
    As it should be. Macho Mourn's Avatar
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    Yes. Mahal's getting better in ring. Sadly, any match Reigns has right now will get shit on, so well, won't matter.

    Personally, I dunno anymore. I am at the point to where the character is close to beyond repair save they find a hot babyface for him to feud with. Everything's in a weird spot sans Rollins on RAW.

    The preposterous promos about backstage politics are... well.. preposterous.

    Just like him being an underdog.

    I think I'm done for now.

    Can Braun with the WWE title yet?

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  3. #3
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    I feel bad for him. The stank of being an office fave killed him. Doesn't help that he has a move set lamer than Diesel (Snake Eyes and the Power Bomb are light years better than Spear and Superman Punch).

    At this point, I don't even know if a heel turn could save him.

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    My only theory is that they're putting him in against Jinder because they know (or think they know) that everyone will boo Jinder against him.

    Honestly, I'm very much on the side of 'he has all the tools, but the way he's booked is terrible'. And in all honesty, the booking goes back to when The Shield split and he just immediately moved on without looking over his shoulder while Dean and Seth were present and feuding as a constant reminder of the split. I'm not saying that feud should have involved Roman at all, but for him to move on just like that kind of blew the whole split into something he wasn't concerned with.

    He might be the kind of guy who would benefit from some time away just to let the issues arounnd him die down a little bit.

    But I think they're going to just build up to Roman/Brock IV. My hope is that it happens without the title at Summerslam, but I'm not sure that will be the case somehow.

  5. #5
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    The problem with a feud with Jinder is that the whole thing will get shat on not just Jinder. I'd bet a significant ammount of money on a 'you both suck' chant when they meet.

    In the lead up to Wrestlemania I actually thought if he finally took the title off Brock and had a run like he did last summer against Braun, putting on awesome matches and doing hard hitting segments week after week then maybe he could build something up.

    Now, with the backstage politics stuff he is a hiding to nothing. He of all people just cannot believable pull the card that the powers that be aren't behind him, I don't like it but there are some wrestlers that can make it work because it is legitimately believable that the are being held back unfairly but not Roman not ever.

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    When he's in the Main Event Pay Per Views without even a title on the line, the 'backstage politics/being held down' story just won't wash.

    I do believe there is something there, he's had good/great matches, and he has made moments where the fans have cared. I can see the WWE's logic in trying to push him. There in lies the problem though; I get trying to push him. I get trying to push him more than once, trying to in different ways, but in between attempts there need's to be something else and there just doesn't feel like there has been.

    It just feels like it's been Roman or bust for the last few years without anything real substantial in between that matters or that has felt more important to the WWE than making Roman. It's a WWE problem at this point for not budging more than a Roman problem for being there.

  7. #7
    The Brain
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    Ok, it's weirding me out that we now have two Olivers.

    Anyway, the point about the territories is sort of interesting but also kind of moot, for a few reasons:

    1. In the territories, they would have never booked him so stupidly in the first place. He would have beat Lesnar at 'Mania 31 and they would have let him sink or swim.

    2. In the territories, if his face run wasn't working but the crowd was loud and he was selling merch, they'd have tried a heel turn by now.

    3. This is all true not just of the territory era, but of any time the WWE had real competition. But the fact is, after the Monday Night Wars ended WWE shifted their entire structure from pushing people based on crowd reaction to pushing who they preferred to have in the spot, for whatever reason.

    As for Roman himself, I know some people who think he is actually a great wrestler, and I can sort of see what they're getting at. I dislike some of his WWE-isms, like the fist cocking and the superman punch being presented as a major piece of offense, but I put that down more to WWE than to Roman, and I think outside of those things he can be pretty good. He does have a certain kind of charisma and a good look, though he obviously has no aptitude for overcoming bad promos if they're put in front of him.

    His booking has definitely been a flat out disaster. From silent ass kicker to "suffering succotash", and now the latest batch where he mostly complains about being held down despite getting favorable positions on the card constantly. And of course his push being timed terribly to the detriment of Daniel Bryan when he was white hot was an enormous misstep. And now he's the guy who can't win the big matches, a guy who chokes when the chips are down. What a mess.

    Just turn the poor guy heel, it's not like Cena where the company hinges on him being a face.

  8. #8
    WWE doesn't wanna give up those merch sales. Being heel fits Reigns naturally though.

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  9. #9
    Super Moderator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Presumably if he's not exactly popular then you're going to be able to make up for a lot of it by plugging someone else into the role?

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

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    Quote Originally Posted by M.V.W. View Post
    WWE doesn't wanna give up those merch sales. Being heel fits Reigns naturally though.
    i highly doubt Reigns merch sales are at Cena's level though. The way the brands are now, its designed to sell the merch from the most people and not just one guy.

    WWE as a business has been very smart getting away from relying on one guy. Which makes pushing Roman this way even more frustrating. if he got better booking it might help... but how can an authority be against him if he keeps getting title matches? lol

    Just none of this makes sense... and even Mahal gets booed, that doesn't mean that the crowd will be glued to seeing Roman overcome the odds of Mahal.

  11. #11
    Super Moderator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I've just now seen the video that's out there about Reigns really 'losing' the GRR match because his right foot was on the ring apron, not on the floor, before Lesnar rolled off.

    And it's pretty clear to me that although his foot is caught in the ring apron, his heel (and therefore his foot) is quite obviously down first. People do like to fucking reach with this guy, don't they?

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by LK3185
    i highly doubt Reigns merch sales are at Cena's level though. The way the brands are now, its designed to sell the merch from the most people and not just one guy.

    WWE as a business has been very smart getting away from relying on one guy. Which makes pushing Roman this way even more frustrating. if he got better booking it might help... but how can an authority be against him if he keeps getting title matches? lol

    Just none of this makes sense... and even Mahal gets booed, that doesn't mean that the crowd will be glued to seeing Roman overcome the odds of Mahal.
    He and Styles are #2 under Cena. I'm beginning to believe the WWE promoting the brand over individual talents is only to an extent b/c as you pointed to, how do you justify pushing one guy over others?

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  13. #13
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M.V.W. View Post
    He and Styles are #2 under Cena. I'm beginning to believe the WWE promoting the brand over individual talents is only to an extent b/c as you pointed to, how do you justify pushing one guy over others?
    How in the world do you know what their merch sales are? I have never seen even a dodgy looking leaked set of figures.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirSam View Post
    How in the world do you know what their merch sales are? I have never seen even a dodgy looking leaked set of figures.
    Meltzer will occasionally talk about merch sales and he's pretty consistently said Roman is third behind Cena and one other guy (generally Brock or AJ). The issue with that is that WWE has been pushing Reigns harder than anyone over the past four years...and he's still nowhere close to selling as much merch as Cena. That's telling.

    At the end of the day the dude just isn't the guy. I was saying that way back when he was still in The Shield and it was perfectly clear that Rollins and Ambrose were both significantly better than him in every department minus the look. It still holds true today. Has he improved in the ring? Absolutely. Has he been booked badly? Absolutely. Here's the problem; there's plenty of workers just as as good, if not better, than Roman in the WWE who haven't gotten his push and are used just as bad. On top of that he has shown a complete inability to improvise and improve his situation. aAm I really supposed to believe, given how Vince and HHH (who gets a pass for this despite being the guy who made the call to make Roman the guy to begin with) value the guy that Roman would be too hard on him if he told them to give him better material or if he went off script on a promo or in a match like that Joe one? John Cena has made a career out of improvising and turning things around; he wouldn't have let that Samoa Joe match go off the chinlock rails. Roman does not have that quality. He's basically a poor man's Cesaro with more hair and a better look. And I'm not sure why we're still wasting so much time figuring out what's wrong when the guy when it's clear WWE has no clue what is role is and he just doesn't have it as the top guy. Simple as that.

  15. #15
    Super Moderator Team Farrell's Avatar
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    There was a moment where Roman could have been that top guy, but I'm siding with Cult here in that I don't think it's something that can happen at this point. Maybe by not telling everyone that he's the top guy and just booking him well over the next few years he can get naturally over (remember, there was a point not too long ago where people were saying that Miz should just be cut and WWE should move on), but as of now it's not doable.

    WWE needs to go with Braun. The wheels will probably come off that eventually, so why the hell would they not throw everything that they have behind a guy that a) has the look and size that they want, b) is actually naturally over with the audience, and c) is a proven ratings draw? Get everything you can out of that before people move on and change their mind on who they love.

    Let Braun rule Raw, let Bryan rule Smackdown and, hey, you might actually see business and ratings increase.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Cult Icon
    Meltzer will occasionally talk about merch sales and he's pretty consistently said Roman is third behind Cena and one other guy (generally Brock or AJ). The issue with that is that WWE has been pushing Reigns harder than anyone over the past four years...and he's still nowhere close to selling as much merch as Cena. That's telling.

    At the end of the day the dude just isn't the guy. I was saying that way back when he was still in The Shield and it was perfectly clear that Rollins and Ambrose were both significantly better than him in every department minus the look. It still holds true today. Has he improved in the ring? Absolutely. Has he been booked badly? Absolutely. Here's the problem; there's plenty of workers just as as good, if not better, than Roman in the WWE who haven't gotten his push and are used just as bad. On top of that he has shown a complete inability to improvise and improve his situation. aAm I really supposed to believe, given how Vince and HHH (who gets a pass for this despite being the guy who made the call to make Roman the guy to begin with) value the guy that Roman would be too hard on him if he told them to give him better material or if he went off script on a promo or in a match like that Joe one? John Cena has made a career out of improvising and turning things around; he wouldn't have let that Samoa Joe match go off the chinlock rails. Roman does not have that quality. He's basically a poor man's Cesaro with more hair and a better look. And I'm not sure why we're still wasting so much time figuring out what's wrong when the guy when it's clear WWE has no clue what is role is and he just doesn't have it as the top guy. Simple as that.
    Some people have called him a poor man's Jason Momoa.

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Farrell
    There was a moment where Roman could have been that top guy, but I'm siding with Cult here in that I don't think it's something that can happen at this point. Maybe by not telling everyone that he's the top guy and just booking him well over the next few years he can get naturally over (remember, there was a point not too long ago where people were saying that Miz should just be cut and WWE should move on), but as of now it's not doable.

    WWE needs to go with Braun. The wheels will probably come off that eventually, so why the hell would they not throw everything that they have behind a guy that a) has the look and size that they want, b) is actually naturally over with the audience, and c) is a proven ratings draw? Get everything you can out of that before people move on and change their mind on who they love.

    Let Braun rule Raw, let Bryan rule Smackdown and, hey, you might actually see business and ratings increase.
    Strowman can probably get a run but Vince likely is sticking w/ Reigns. I wonder if Reigns had been heel upon The Shield breaking up would he be more accepted. He seems more naturally heel going by this promo:

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  17. #17
    Senior Member LWO4Life's Avatar
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    Roman, in that suit, next to the McMahon's, with that attitude, and add in the chip on his shoulder from the fans, would be AMAZING! Rumor is that since the walk out at Backlash, Vince has had his eyes opened. I have no idea what that means, but I can only hope it's him giving up on Reigns. And I don't hate Reigns, but in all my years watching wrestling, you can see when it's not working, and THIS, is not working.

  18. #18
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    There was also a rumor that came out that said Vince dismissed the walk out as people needing to leave early because it was a school night. I wouldn't take much stock in either rumor.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Cult Icon
    There was also a rumor that came out that said Vince dismissed the walk out as people needing to leave early because it was a school night. I wouldn't take much stock in either rumor.
    Neither would I but pairing Reigns w/ McMahon like LWO4Life suggested would be ace.

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  20. #20
    Vince is way too stubborn to give up on Reigns being the next top face so him dismissing the walk out as people needing to leave early wouldn't surprise me.

  21. #21
    People go on about how much Vince loves him, but judging by the way he's booked, Vince must hate him. Only ever sets him up for failures it seems. Roman v Jinder in Chicago? I'm sure that will go down a storm.

    Not sure how much stroke Roman has backstage but he needs to tell them when he knows something is awful and not right for his character- and that to me is the main thing he's doesn't seem to have that other top guys have had. Could you imagine the likes of Austin, HBK, Hogan, Cena, Bret, Warrior etc- given what we know about them- putting up with all the shite they give Roman and just happily going along with it?

  22. #22
    Vince is putting Reigns into a feud with Jinder to get him over with the crowd (which likely won't work). He knows that if Reigns was in the MITB and won over Strowman, there would be a shit storm.

  23. #23
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    I mean, I would think the logic in the very idea "putting Reigns into a feud with Jinder to get him over" is relatively self-evident! You're not wrong in saying it likely won't work. If I were a betting man, I'd put money on it. The unfortunate thing is that at this stage I'm not sure anything will.

    I was never a Roman hater. I've always been a fan. I think the man is clearly immensely talented and capable of great matches. Unfortunately, there's no escaping the truth that his career has been completely sabotaged by the incompetence of his employer and their staggering level of stupidity when it comes to his presentation. And as a result, despite having been a fan, I'm at a stage where, through no fault of Reigns really, I just don't want to see him. I get instantly annoyed when he turns up, just because I know there's going to be some irritating nonsense following shortly thereafter.

    This is someone who has now closed four consecutive WrestleManias, but feels like he should never have been close to doing so with one.

    Imagine John Cena still in need of being 'cemented' in 2009 - that's where we are, and in that context the situation is inexcusably diabolical.

  24. #24
    Super Moderator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I'm not into superhero style wrestling, which is really his strong suit. And was Cena's before him, to be fair. I've seen him try more believable stuff but it is a bit clunky to be honest. Like there's something caught in the machine.

    I'm not sure about his talent being either clear or immense, personally, though I don't think I'd write him off the way his biggest critics do. But to be honest I can only remember the very odd match fondly and they are usually with the top performers.


    What I will say, is he's had crap matches with Brock and now Joe. I know he's doing what has been asked, but at what point does going along with the plan and not changing it up as his predecessors would have done, become something to criticise not just the company and the booking but the talent himself?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    What I will say, is he's had crap matches with Brock and now Joe. I know he's doing what has been asked, but at what point does going along with the plan and not changing it up as his predecessors would have done, become something to criticise not just the company and the booking but the talent himself?
    This is definitely a thing Reigns has gotten a pass on. How many times over the years have we seen John Cena, be it in ring or during a promo, improvise and go off script to improve something? One of the greatest moments of Cena's career was when he ventured away from the plan during that segment in Seattle where the crowd hijacked everything for Daniel Bryan and brought Bryan into it, thus saving the segment and creating one of the most memorable go home finales in recent memory. And that's just one example. We've never gotten that from Roman and I think at this point it's fair to criticize him for it. It's not like Vince would fire or de-push Roman for improvising on a promo or changing things up in the ring to improve a match; the guy has continued to push Roman following crowd rejections, suspensions and all the rest. Instead it seems more or less like Roman sticks to the script both on the mic and in the ring. That may be his biggest weakness; just going with the flow and not being able to think on his feet.

  26. #26
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    Oh it's certainly an issue. I've passed comment on talents not reacting to the crowd response proactively in the past on Twitter and on the Pond. Though I must confess I find it bizarre anyone would praise Cena for that. His entire career has sort of been defined by an unwillingness to change, with the immediate comparison of course being The Rock in 1997.

  27. #27
    Super Moderator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I think there's a conflation of two different things there. The difference between broadly playing the same role and, on the other hands, making smaller scale changes on the fly.

    I don't know if I think Cena is that amazing at it, certainly compared with previous generations, but he's certainly shown some ability to improvise and as he's got older, a real solid handle on how to and when to do that. Roman to date follows the laid out tracks like a train.

    For the longest time now I've held that Roman hasn't made himself the guy, but you can't blame him for taking the spot and so it's all on the company. But after enough time passes if you're not a good enough leader to call an audible then you've no business in that position.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  28. #28
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    So I just saw the beat down of Jinder by Reigns on Raw and it reminded me very strongly of what the WWE did with Reigns and Strowman last year.

    Everyone is assuming that he got paired with Jinder so the crowd would cheer him but what if (like with Braun last year) the point is to use Reigns negative reaction to build up Jinder?

  29. #29
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    I can't see Jinder as a face. He just screams heel.

  30. #30
    The Brain
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    Yeah, people dislike Jinder enough that a face turn would really be baffling at this point. I'm not saying it's not possible they'd try, but I'd be surprised.

  31. #31
    Super Moderator Prime Time's Avatar
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    If that was what they were trying, I think they call that trying to be too clever.

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  32. #32
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    I mean, I'm quite enjoying four-year-old-not-getting-his-own-way-and-acting-out Roman.

    There's such a great chip on his shoulder right now. Christ of WWE leaned into it they'd have such an easy heel on their hands. He literally just needs one 'you people booed me when I was giving my everything' promo and you're on a highway to brilliant heel Roman.

    I mean, I know it's an easy, almost lazy, comparison to make, but think of Rock's first promo with the Nation and how well that worked. They could almost do it word for word with Roman and it be perfectly relevant.

    That, to me, is the route they have to take to make him a star right now. Lean so hard into this entitled jock asshat that just throws a violent paddy when he doesn't get his own way. I'm sure they don't want to, but already in my head I can see Reigns cutting promos about having $5,000 dollar suits he's wearing, how the woman love him and want to fuck him, the works.

    I don't even think you need to make him corporate and have him alongside the McMahons to get there, either. In fact, I think the fact that he wouldn't be and yet is deluded to the point of believing he is the chosen one could make it even better.

  33. #33
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    I agree with you completely Oliver, it is crazy how the WWE just refuses to let itself see what is right in front of them.

    Hell he should probably be in a tag team or stable with Jinder where they can just be utter heat magnets.
    Last edited by SirSam; 05-19-2018 at 01:51 AM.

  34. #34
    The Brain
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    I've long thought that "Invincible" Roman Reigns would be a great way to play this guy as a heel. It feels so easy to take what people already hate about him and just go all in on it. And if they turn around and start cheering him later, so what? That's what you wanted in the first place!

  35. #35
    Vince wished him a happy birthday on Twitter. Do you think Vince and Roman are engaging a quid pro quo sexual thing?

  36. #36
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    Via Reddit, from WOR, Meltzer speculation on Summerslam plans:

    “By the way, I should mention in the commentary, during the tag match, they made it very clear that Roman Reigns is the guy who’s going to be wrestling Lesnar. I mean it was on and on and on about how he got cheated at the Greatest Royal Rumble, how he’s going for the championship, so it doesn’t look like it’s Strowman. I mean they could change their mind but they were pretty strong on commentary that that’s the big program.”
    I didn't watch Raw yesterday, but there it is.

  37. #37
    Super Moderator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I don't think that's a surprise. Makes it sound like the rumours of other options floating around were wishful thinking.

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  38. #38
    The Brain
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    Imagine when Reigns loses again. All aboard for Wrestlemania 35.

  39. #39
    Super Moderator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I'm not going to lie, I think this story is so bad it'd be hilarious if they kept booking the match and Brock kept winning. I'd laugh long and hard.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  40. #40
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    That would be epic and comical, agreed. I actually wouldn't mind it if that were the main event of WM again, if that was the outcome. We're supposed to get another 4-6 Roman Reigns WM main events anyways, so we may as well get some absurdist humour out of it.

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