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  1. #121
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cult Icon View Post
    Wow Coach. I was expecting us to debate this until the Leafs won the Stanley Cup (this summer, still a long time for a wrestling debate) and instead we agree!
    Cult, usually I agree with just about everything you say, but the Leafs? The team that lured away Pajama Boy from my Islanders? Please. The Leafs are not winning the cup any time soon.

    I can't wait for Feb 28th when ol' PJ Boy returns to the old Barn and gets booed out of the Coliseum, my entire family will be there spewing fire at the traitor.

    That being said, Cult you and Coach hit the nail on the head. The WWE is taking their hottest star during their biggest time leading up to their biggest PPV and pissing off their fans. I wonder, there might be something new out there that is just getting started, with a lot of stars and buzz around it, that if the WWE doesn't realize their mistake, if the fans turn and leave for AEW.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Farrell View Post
    For some reason, WWE is just obsessed with the idea of Charlotte and Ronda involved together.

    You're 100% correct on this. Everyone is behind Becky. Everyone. Just fucking ride that wave. She could be your biggest star, period. Not biggest female star, just biggest star.

    Becky has everyone's full support. She doesn't have people (and I was one) arguing that she's not big enough or doesn't have the mainstream audience's support like with Daniel Bryan. She doesn't have people saying that she has the wrong look like some older school people did with CM Punk.

    She's a beautiful girl who can talk trash and go in the ring, she has everything it takes to be a crossover star and appeal to absolutely everyone. Becky Lunch could be your next John Cena or Steve Austin, all of the stars are aligning perfectly for that to happen, and it really looks like they might somehow miss the boat on it.
    Not everyone.

  3. #123
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    Charlotte Vs. Ronda is the match we should have gotten all along. I know that's not a popular thing to say, but that match up seems to check all the boxes. If Flair ends Asuka's streak and then beats Rousey, she will boast one hell of resume that can easily tell a great story of the cocky heel cementing her legacy. Another thing to consider is that the authority-type storyline where someone is the "chosen one" for the McMahon's hasn't really been told with a woman. Charlotte seems like the PERFECT corporate women's champion, and Becky gets to play the Austin role. Seriously, that's the kind of story that could change the game for WWE, I truly believe that.

  4. #124
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I dunno man, they may not have done that with a woman but they've run them against so many people it's old hat, regardless of how you try and twist. A simple gender switch ain't enough to get me onboard with another angle like that, and it doesn't strike me as the kind of angle that's gonna bring many others back, either.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  5. #125
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    To sound like a broken record, if Vince insists on having Charlotte in the match, and doesn’t have Becky pin Rousey, it could turn fans off, and turn to AEW as a replacement.

  6. #126
    Super Moderator Team Farrell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    Not everyone.
    Maybe not everyone on the entire face of the planet. A handful of people boo'd Hogan in the 80s. But 15,000 people cut Daniel Bryan off mid promo to chant "Becky" on SmackDown, so I'd say a big enough percentage.
    Quote Originally Posted by typeitinmaan View Post
    Charlotte Vs. Ronda is the match we should have gotten all along. I know that's not a popular thing to say, but that match up seems to check all the boxes. If Flair ends Asuka's streak and then beats Rousey, she will boast one hell of resume that can easily tell a great story of the cocky heel cementing her legacy. Another thing to consider is that the authority-type storyline where someone is the "chosen one" for the McMahon's hasn't really been told with a woman. Charlotte seems like the PERFECT corporate women's champion, and Becky gets to play the Austin role. Seriously, that's the kind of story that could change the game for WWE, I truly believe that.
    I have nothing against rehashing angles. I saw someone who didn't like that Becky was basically a retread of Austin...but it's not that bad. Once you watch wrestling enough, everything repeats, and the last time they really went "full Austin" was almost a decade ago with Punk.

    But my problem with Charlotte vs Ronda is classic Bruce Prichard question: "then what?"

    Charlotte ended Asuka's streak. Now she beats Ronda. What then? Who cares? What else is there for her to do? She's also an eight time Women's/Diva's Champion. Nine if you count NXT. At 32, what more is there for her to do? She's been booked so invulnerably and so far above everyone else for four years that she's done it all and nothing more is fresh.

    Now, we haven't seen the shelf life of a female professional wrestler in this new era. We don't know if Mickie James is the exception, or the rule. Are women going to be like men and wrestling at a high level into their 40s, or are we likely to see many of them phasing out by their mid 30s? We don't know. But if Charlotte has another decade of wrestling left, what else is there to conquer?

    WWE could have had Charlotte take a step back and challenge Asuka on the undercard. She could have spent 2019 working underneath programs and trying to build other girls so that she continues to have interesting things to do for years to come.

    But because her name is Flair, she has to be involved in just about every single "history making" beat in Women's Revolution™. And it's not fucking fair to her that I say that, because she's talented as hell in her own right and deserves most, if not all, of what she has gotten based on her merit alone.

    Charlotte shouldn't be the one to slay every beast, make every piece of history and have every accolade. It's boring to watch and stunts the growth of the rest of the roster.

  7. #127
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    Farrell, to answer your question on then "then what?" for Charlotte I think there's tons of options. For one, a feud where it's clearly established that Charlotte is the monster heel (not pretending to be a babyface) and Lynch is the fans favorite could stretch for months and be entertaining. Then you have Sasha Banks who's feud with Charlotte would feel fresh again should they go down that route. Also, with the inclusion of women's tag team titles you have options there too, including (but not limited to) Lynch and Charlotte hating eachother but tag champs. Kind of a unique wrinkle to think about.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by typeitinmaan View Post
    Also, with the inclusion of women's tag team titles you have options there too, including (but not limited to) Lynch and Charlotte hating eachother but tag champs. Kind of a unique wrinkle to think about.
    SCSA/Dude Love, SCSA/HBK, SCSA/Undertaker, HBK/Cena, Angle/Benoit, even more recently... Sheamus/Cesaro. Not that unique, really.
    Last edited by meandi; 1 Week Ago at 04:12 PM.

  9. #129
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    considering there have never been womens tag champs, it is unique. That option wasnt there last year

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by typeitinmaan View Post
    considering there have never been womens tag champs, it is unique. That option wasnt there last year
    Like Prime said earlier, a simple gender switch isn't going to make things fresh or welcomed.

    Putting Charlotte in every history making angle and shoving her down our throats is just going to reignite the John Cena/Roman Reigns syndrome. Becky Lynch is naturally over. She has it all. Talent, charisma, beauty (without the need of implants, unlike Charlotte, and even then I still don't think Charlotte is good looking with or without them, but that's not really the point). She is just naturally over. Almost everyone wants Becky Lynch and most want Lynch vs Rousey without Charlotte included (like me for example). This is the era that we were promised the fans get what they want, but so far, we get the shaft yet again.

  11. #131
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    The only way a triple threat could’ve been interesting is if Rousey/Flair had been feuding for a couple of years in a real blood feud. Becky wins the Rumble and jumps to Raw (after being told she could never challenge for the title on Smackdown ever again) and instead challenges Ronda, only for Flair to superkick Becky and sign the contract instead. Oh, wait...

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kleckamania View Post
    Hate to burst your bubbles, boyos, but there is no way Becky is beating Ronda at WM. They added Charlotte so Becky could lose the match without being pinned or submitted.
    Ding ding ding. We have a winner. A winner is you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    To sound like a broken record, if Vince insists on having Charlotte in the match, and doesn’t have Becky pin Rousey, it could turn fans off, and turn to AEW as a replacement.
    I'm so sick of hearing this 'if x doesn't do y, everyone's going to start tuning into AEW!' train of thought. It's bullshit. People can watch both, like...it's not impossible to watch an extra hour or two of wrestling a week once/if AEW gets on TV. It's not like they are planning a Monday Night War from day one with AEW.


    As for Lynch, Charlotte, and every McMahon who's not The Greatest Wrestler In The World, it's so ass stupid that they're doing this storyline in the way they're doing it, like the creative team can't be trusted to write a two month storyline without their brains forming mush and leaking out of their ear. This is the simplest feud to book in the world, it's two people who have had heat with each other since November moving forward to wrestle at the biggest wrestling event they can do that at.

    And yet we're getting bogged down in a Becky vs Bosses thing which we've seen every year for the past 20 years. Why? Because the McMahon's can't deal with not being the spotlight on the biggest stage and storyline? Or some other shit? Do they really think Becky Lynch, The Man and Lasskicker, who - get this - got over with fans by being a bad ass motherfucker via some accidental nose blood rather than, say, as an ultimate underdog or an uncontrollable redneck who hates authority, needs both an underdog and anti-authority story too? It's such crap, but it's also such classic WWE, who haven't been able to pivot the way they book a top face since 1998 when punching the boss in the face was the only way to 'get over', and if that failed you essentially had to commit some sort of vehicular homicide or other bullshit to have people cheer you. See also: Sheamus shitting in a car, CM Punk vs People Power, John Cena vs People Power, etc etc.

    So now 'The Man' is an injured underdog being oppressed by her bosses in favour of a shinier, more corporate friendly model due to ~bloodline~ and she's a B+ player and she's an injured underdog and she's a bad ass motherfucker. It's almost like they've gone 'oh, she's catching fire, now we need to use EVERY TROPE WE'VE EVER USED TO MAKE A TOP FACE' and thrown all the shit at the wall. I feel like we're about two weeks away from Charlotte kidnapping Finn Balor and trying to embalm him at the behest of a higher power, only for Becky to charge through the crowd and beat her shitless.

    And the thing is everything is there for a Becky/Charlotte/Ronda triple threat to exist as a result of it's own storytelling, its own star power, and its own quality. There is literally no need for the Authority/McMahon stuff to happen here, and while I like it for the heat it immediately gets on Charlotte I don't think they needed to do it like that and they could, very easily, have had Charlotte twist the arm of Becky and Ronda to force her way into the match without it being a case of her as the 'chosen one' or whatever. And I've said it before, I think even in this thread - Charlotte vs Becky and Charlotte vs Ronda are as much a part of the story as Becky vs Ronda itself is, so joining the three feuds together into one whole - especially after what happened at TLC - makes perfect sense. And they could have got there based on the stories they themselves have told, without having to throw sixty more stories at it. It could have just been a pure one vs one vs one storyline, and now they're slowly fucking it up by trying to use WWE standards to 'make sure' it works by their rules, instead of letting it breath.

    So what's next - it's now 'The Authority' vs Becky Lynch, the interest is in what happens with Vince, Trips, and Steph next week while the opposite side is suspended, the golden child Charlotte gets more heat, and Ronda, who WWE have spent a year building up to be hugely important, is the sixth wheel in a triple threat match where she and the title don't seem to really matter.

    Like, holy FUCK could they have fumbled a two metre throw any harder?

  13. #133
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    And yet we're getting bogged down in a Becky vs Bosses thing which we've seen every year for the past 20 years. Why? Because the McMahon's can't deal with not being the spotlight on the biggest stage and storyline? Or some other shit? Do they really think Becky Lynch, The Man and Lasskicker, who - get this - got over with fans by being a bad ass motherfucker via some accidental nose blood rather than, say, as an ultimate underdog or an uncontrollable redneck who hates authority, needs both an underdog and anti-authority story too? It's such crap, but it's also such classic WWE, who haven't been able to pivot the way they book a top face since 1998 when punching the boss in the face was the only way to 'get over', and if that failed you essentially had to commit some sort of vehicular homicide or other bullshit to have people cheer you. See also: Sheamus shitting in a car, CM Punk vs People Power, John Cena vs People Power, etc etc.
    I mean, there's other reasons, but this is basically as good a summary as to why I gave up paying more than passing attention to the WWE main roster in a nutshell.

    I remember trying to work out once how much time since Vince turned (and obviously it goes back longer than that if you look beyond WWE, at least as far as Bischoff joining the NWO if not beyond) has there been some sort of heel authority figure angle, and how much time there hasn't been, and while I can't remember the result there was barely any time that they hadn't been. A few months here, a few months there, and that's about it.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  14. #134
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    They can't even give us a full year of what they promised us just a few months ago. Now, I don't see Vince being on TV every week, but still, no one was clamoring for an authority angle here.

  15. #135
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    I think the longest they may have went was a two year gap between CM Punk's "Summer of Punk" angle and Daniel Bryan vs. the Authority. In fairness, both of those angles initially did work and could've worked long term given how dynamic Punk was and Bryan is (and they did make that work in the end only when there was no other choice) but even still; those angles were tired then and their especially tired now when it's the same old shit. I honestly think there's only been maybe four instances of the Authority Figure angle really working in wrestling; Bischoff from 96-98 (say what you will about him but he was EXCELLENT in that role), Vince from 98-99, William Regal right now in NXT and Dario Cueto in the first three seasons of Lucha Underground. Frankly I think the latter two portrayals are the way to go; you either have someone like Regal who stays in the background unless needed or someone like Dario who, while definitely villainous in many regards, is an equal opportunity kind of guy who makes decisions based on what's best for his show (it doesn't hurt that the guy portraying him is a force of charisma that hides the usual flaws). Otherwise it's the same shit we've been getting for twenty years.


  16. #136
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    Wasn't John Laurinaitis running some stuff with Cena during that time which would probably qualify?

    I'm largely in line with you though, and while I'm not so sure about the Punk thing, the Bryan angle always kinda felt really incidental to me. Like, they could have done anything, and so long as you did it with him, people would have been all over it. It was clear that he'd been picked as 'the guy' by a big section of the audience well in advance.

    I don't know the lucha underground guy so can't comment, but with you on the others. The good thing about Regal is that he's really not overplayed the way that these things routinely are. And oh man, I think people sometimes forget just how much people legitimately hated Bischoff in 1997/98.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  17. #137
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    EDIT: Never mind, I misread.
    Last edited by Powder; 1 Week Ago at 01:20 PM.

  18. #138
    Regal in NXT should be the default, a respected vet who seems to genuinely want the show to be the best it can be. That's it. Ironically, HHH would actually be a good fit for that kind of role if he could calm some of his worst impulses.

    I feel like we're about two weeks away from Charlotte kidnapping Finn Balor and trying to embalm him at the behest of a higher power, only for Becky to charge through the crowd and beat her shitless.
    I mean....I'd be all into this. Like, crazy into it.

  19. #139
    Super Moderator Team Farrell's Avatar
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    I dunno, I think there have been a few more successful heel authority figures in the past. Bischoff on Raw sticks out to me as one that I enjoyed just being gross and smarmy and the caricature of what people assume Bischoff is. Vince in the 90s is a cartoonish depiction of what I want a wrestling promoter in a movie to be -- an abusive, carny, jacked up animal.

    In 2019, I want Jack Tunney back. I want a regular, uncharismatic, milquetoast white guy in a plain suit with no promo ability to come out with no music when there's a controversy and somewhat uncomfortably relay a decision that was made. Give me a year or two of that guy and we can talk about a heel authority figure again.

  20. #140
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    I want the Mick Foley RAW commissioner from the early 2000s back.

  21. #141
    As a kid I thought Tunney held actual real power in the company because he was never involved in storylines (as I recall). Just delivered decisions when he had to.

  22. #142
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Farrell View Post
    I dunno, I think there have been a few more successful heel authority figures in the past. Bischoff on Raw sticks out to me as one that I enjoyed just being gross and smarmy and the caricature of what people assume Bischoff is. Vince in the 90s is a cartoonish depiction of what I want a wrestling promoter in a movie to be -- an abusive, carny, jacked up animal.

    In 2019, I want Jack Tunney back. I want a regular, uncharismatic, milquetoast white guy in a plain suit with no promo ability to come out with no music when there's a controversy and somewhat uncomfortably relay a decision that was made. Give me a year or two of that guy and we can talk about a heel authority figure again.


    I think it depends on what you define as successful. There are all kinds of people who've done all right, and Bischoff when he came to RAW was one of them because he still had that ability to rub people the wrong way. But the move was already a bit of a busted flush by that point, and it just wasn't the same. I commend anyone who can actually get anything out of it to be honest, because it must be like trying to sell people air.

    I'm totally all in on that second paragraph, though. I'd want a few years of that, then you can maybe pivot when there are more people who think someone in power fucking with you is a reason to get upset.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  23. #143
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    A scenario that just popped through my head when reading the news, for no other reason than I wanted to overthink a situation.

    What if...Ruby wins the title at Elimination Chamber through all the shenanigans, ultimately a Becky run in costing Ronda. They then all shrug collectively and go 'well, we said Charlotte's in the title match, so it's Charlotte vs Ruby Riott at WrestleMania' and Rousey demands to face Becky one on one without the title? They could even, if they want to go really fully into it and throw extra stuff at it, go for an 'unsanctioned' Becky vs Ronda match due to the suspension.

    I know full well none of that will happen, but I feel like it would make for an interesting - if a bit chaotic - Mania run in.

  24. #144
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    You know, I do not hate that idea at all.

  25. #145
    I like the idea since Ruby would have the belt.

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