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  1. #201
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    It really has been the true alternative to WWE and every other promotion. It's odd how much wrestling has changed since the Attitude Era. A modern show is mostly <5 minute matches is a refreshing change of pace. As much as fans complain about WWE having no focus on the ring work (at least compared to Impact, ROH, and AEW), a promotion like NWA shows that WWE really does focus on in ring action (too much in my opinion). I can't remember every single Power, but other than Anderson vs Drake Street Fight from the last episode, none of the matches have been of the length expected by modern fans. All while telling several separate an unique stories, and pushing multiple characters in the span of a 60 minute show.

    NWA isn't breaking new ground in any direction or way, but still is a complete change from everything else out there. The retro feel is a gimmick, but it's not overdone. NXT delivers the best wrestling program overall, for my taste. But the perfect combination would be NWA story telling mixed with NXT in ring presentation, in front of an AEW crowd.

  2. #202
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    I think what NWA does well in that regard is that it makes PPV shows feel like a big deal. You're going to get matches every week that are entertaining and serve a purpose, but on the PPV events or with the odd match like the Street Fight, you're going to get the payoff in match quality. I know I'm not getting anything better on a WWE PPV than they put on TV every week, save for maybe a big stunt in a top level match, so one of those things just isn't "necessary" to see so long as they'll give me a quick recap of the angles on the PPV.

    In 2019/2020, if I want to see "good" or even "great" workrate focused wrestling matches, it's easy. There's Dynamite, NXT, ROH, even Raw and Smackdown usually have one. Give me something I don't get every week.

    NWA doesn't feel like it has any "fat" that could be trimmed on a weekly basis. Obviously there are the silly faux commercials, but even those fit in to what would typically be a commercial break because they're formatting the show as though it were on television.

  3. #203
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    I've drifted a little bit away on this, but I did appreciate the idea of having a show with mostly short matches. I think in practice they may have gone a little too short for my taste, for me between 4 and 10 minutes is an ideal length for most matches but they seemed to go under that a lot. If I see somebody get beat clean in about 5 minutes or less, instinctively I'm going to think that wrestler is a jobber or close to it. Which is great if that's the point, less so if it's someone I need to take seriously next week, and I think they've flirted with that a bit more than I'd like. But it's a tweak rather than a big change, the concept is pretty sound and does stand out as fresh in 2019.

  4. #204
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    NWA seems to be holding it's audience better than pretty much anyone else now. Obviously a decline after the first couple of weeks but the week 3 edition of Powerrr had 240,000 views, and only one since then has had less than 200,000. Unlike everyone else, the crowd they have are sticking around.

    Of course, it's much easier to hold 200,000 than it is to hold a million. That needs to be added. But, in it's own small way this seems to be working.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  5. #205
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    I bought a brand new beautiful smart TV when they went on sale after Christmas, and with YouTube built right in (the remote has a giant YouTube button on it) it's actually easier for me to watch Power now than any other show given that I don't have cable and have to use other means of watching them, usually through a PC and Chromecast.

    I haven't bought a new TV in nearly a decade, will wonders never cease.

    Side note: it's also lead to me watching more random wrestling since those YouTube algorithms know I like wrestling. I've seen a bunch of old TNA because they upload full PPV's and random indy shit.

  6. #206
    How does nwa compare with mlw?
    See the latest of my Ric Flair saga click here. http://lordsofpain.tv/showthread.php...acock-(Part-2) View my story inspired by colorful wrestlers I've come across in my fandom. http://lordsofpain.tv/showthread.php...-the-Challenge

  7. #207
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    I assume MLW must have other channels that people usually access them from, because on YouTube there's no comparison in the popularity of the two. NWA probably five times higher for the most part.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  8. #208
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    MLW is on BEinSports. It's a US network available in Canada. Not the most common since most of you have never heard of it, but still out there. In fact, newest rumor is that they've done so well with the network that they are about to expand their reach with another show.

  9. #209
    NWA couldnt have been great for AEW. I tried AEW for the Cody/Jericho/Jim Ross and Tony stuff...but didnt like the style...Then, here come NWA and I say shit, I'll just watch this instead
    See the latest of my Ric Flair saga click here. http://lordsofpain.tv/showthread.php...acock-(Part-2) View my story inspired by colorful wrestlers I've come across in my fandom. http://lordsofpain.tv/showthread.php...-the-Challenge

  10. #210
    Crazy how wrestlers have got so much smaller now Ricky Moreton looks big stood next to most of them

    Pretty into what the NWA are doing but I'm a couple of episodes behind, need to catch up sometime

  11. #211
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    Lol, it's certainly come to something if Ricky freakin' Morton is looking like a giant.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Kong Sundae View Post
    Crazy how wrestlers have got so much smaller now Ricky Moreton looks big stood next to most of them

    Pretty into what the NWA are doing but I'm a couple of episodes behind, need to catch up sometime
    At his height, Ricky Morton would be a heavyweight today if cruiser is 205.

    Also. Scott motherfucking Steiner!

  13. #213
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    To be fair, RM's head is the size of some people's chests/stomach areas.

    Really hoping the Scurll rumors are true, and he gets WWE money to sign with roh while also being able to work NWA and NJPW. Aldis-Scurll was my 2019 MOTY, and they got a lot more. Cody couldn't deliver the roh title before All In, but I'd love to one day see a title-for-title match, roh vs. NWA, between Scurll and Aldis. Plus, Aldis is too sophisticated for the babyfaces in the NWA. It's going to take a villain to keep up with him.
    Last edited by Mystic; 01-12-2020 at 12:17 AM.

  14. #214
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    This possible cooperation with ROH concerns me. I think for ROH, it's great. But NWA might take a hit overall.

    First, it's tough to discuss, because it's still fresh and new for this incarnation of NWA. And maybe they had a plan in mind the whole time, and the things NWA is getting right won't be changing with ROH's involvement.

    But, the one downfall to any talent sharing is that there's usually a single promotion that has more control over a character than another promotion. Take the Villain as an example. It seems like he's contracted to ROH, but allowed to work elsewhere when scheduling permits. So I'm already doubting his potential NWA title chances. He might get the title shot, but I don't see the title changing hands to someone more affiliated with ROH.

    Also, I guess NWA will benefit from exposure with ROH. But this feels like it's more to benefit ROH to get back on track. Which, is honestly a good thing because I easily enjoyed ROH more in 2019 than Impact or AEW as my non-WWE option - at least until Powerrr debuted. Other than Raw and NXT, there's been no show I've been more excited for weekly than Powerrr. And I don't want to lose what makes Powerrr special just so ROH can rebuild.

  15. #215
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    Did I hear right that Scurll is actually taking control of creative in ROH? If that's the case then he may have a free hand to do what he likes between NWA and ROH, which would be quite interesting.

  16. #216
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    Sounds risky when they seemed to have a decent thing going?

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  17. #217
    Puerto Rican dude living in Japan Degenerate's Avatar
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    I watched a full episode of NWA Powerrr for the first time ever with last week's episode (I think episode #13). I wasn't actively avoiding the show, there's just way too much wrestling and too little time to watch it all.

    It was a pretty good show and I enjoyed it a lot. The environment is definitely unique and lively, much more than I expected. The matches were solid, and they have some interesting wrestlers that I had never seen before. The familiar faces were nice to see, too. I have to watch some more to get a better feel of those I have no clue about yet.

    The only off-putting thing for me were those weird commercial spots in between matches like the Rock n' Roll Express Hotline bit. I didn't grow up on old NWA or anything so I have no sense of nostalgia about them, and they just felt strange and out of place.

    Overall it was a nice change of pace, and at about an hour per show it'll be an easy thing to pick up and watch throughout some of my breaks during the day. I'll keep watching.

  18. #218
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    I usually skipped over those myself, Deg!

    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    Sounds risky when they seemed to have a decent thing going?
    Well I don't think Scurll gained any power in NWA, so their direction should remain the same barring any changes from Corgan and Lagana.

    As for Ring of Honor, I know they have their defenders but for at least the past year I'd say they haven't really had a good thing going. Their portion of the MSG New Japan show was heavily criticized (though I enjoyed much of it personally), their attendance has reportedly been rock bottom, PR problems such as the Bully Ray and Kelly Klein situations, complaints about Hunter Johnson's creative direction and management of the company, and so on. Seems like taking a risk on a fresh voice could be ideal for them.

  19. #219
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    Yeah, for what it's worth I only meant NWA (who I still only hear overwhelmingly positive things about, to be honest). As for RoH, linking up with the NWA is probably the first good thing I've seen them do to get positive coverage in at least a year, and maybe longer.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  20. #220
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    It's so unique and small compared to all the other options, that I believe people who didn't enjoy it just stopped watching. Shows you that when you see negative feedback for any promotion, it's from people who genuinely want to be fans and are disappointed, or trolls who just antagonize. Either way, all that's left are people who enjoy it, and aren't shy to share that opinion.

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Degenerate View Post
    The only off-putting thing for me were those weird commercial spots in between matches like the Rock n' Roll Express Hotline bit. I didn't grow up on old NWA or anything so I have no sense of nostalgia about them, and they just felt strange and out of place.
    I get a chuckle out of them, and they've definitely scaled it back. I think that they're filler for what is supposed to be an actual commercial break. On the first run, there would be three or four per episode, now they have their Highspots commercials that's filled one weekly, and they run flag football commercials from time to time. I assume that as they get more advertisers on board, they'll phase those out entirely.

  22. #222
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    I really enjoyed last night's episode and it provided quite a bit of advancement of things overall. I'll watch Hard Times this week.

    Aldis has an ability that few have. While guys might be able to get themselves over with raw athleticism better or be flashier wrestlers, Aldis has the ability that Ric Flair also had to make every opponent he faces look like they might have a legitimate shot against him and get them over, without sacrificing his legitimacy.

    It's in the little things. Being willing to break the flow of action (which a lot of guys wouldn't at the risk of losing stars or being "boring") to take a walk after being caught off guard that a guy in his 60's had as much fire as Morton did is an example. Knowing when to sell for Morton, and when to be the younger, stronger, Heavyweight Champion with a million dollar look is another example.

    It's knowing when to be selfish and get me over, and when to sell or take a powder and get the other guy over.

  23. #223
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    That's a very good analysis of what Aldis has become very, very good at in the last few years. I didn't catch the Morton match yet but it's something I'm going to keep my eye out for when I do watch it.

  24. #224
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    NWA isn't perfect, but it's as close to perfect as a promotion is in 2020. Only thing missing would be weekly matches of a higher quality (which shows us how spoiled we are), wider array of challengers in all divisions (more teams, more women, more main event players...etc.), and more characters to care about. They are doing a tremendous job overall, but I would like to see more of what they do with Aron Stevens and less of what they do with Ricky Starks.

  25. #225
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    I don't catch a lot of wrestling news anymore but saw they were going for Aldis vs Scurll II at the Crockett Cup. That felt to me like a suitably NWA thing to do.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  26. #226
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    Is that a dig, or a compliment?

  27. #227
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    I intended it more as an observation than either, but if you were to press me then my own feelings are it's a good thing.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  28. #228
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    There's a blisteringly good promo from Eddie Kingston on the latest episode of Powerrr. Some really good stuff happening over there.

  29. #229
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    Yes! I saw that promo and got really, really excited. Kingston's almost always gold on the mike.

    Aldis is superb, as Coach points out up the thread. I really disliked him in TNA, but he's clearly grown since the time I was watching that.

  30. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizfan View Post
    There's a blisteringly good promo from Eddie Kingston on the latest episode of Powerrr. Some really good stuff happening over there.
    It's absolutely unreal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    Yes! I saw that promo and got really, really excited. Kingston's almost always gold on the mike.

    Aldis is superb, as Coach points out up the thread. I really disliked him in TNA, but he's clearly grown since the time I was watching that.
    Aldis is never going to be the master of flips, and probably not going to put on too many Meltzer five star matches. But he's the perfect World Heavyweight Champion. He can work with anyone on any roster and put on a strong, main event worthy match.

  31. #231
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    I hate myself for saying it, being a lifelong WWE fan, but nobody has been more consistantly strong as NWA since Power started up. Never a bad show, with the last one having one of the best women's matches outside of NXT of the last year.

  32. #232
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    Kingston absolutely rules on the mic. He’s in my personal top 5 of all time, almost nobody in history can convince me of the genuine emotion behind what he’s saying like Kingston can. If someone said to me what Kingston said to Pope in the same way, I would leave town.

    Aldis in TNA was, I think, a combination of the company not being sure what to do with him and Aldis not really knowing what to do with himself. I remember when they went for his big push in 2013-2014 but nobody seemed to be able to find their footing and it fell apart as a flop. I don’t put it fully on TNA because there were guys in the same period who did loads more with what they were handed, but despite some effort on both sides he never clicked at all as a top guy. His improvement since that time is monumental, and clearly he’s being put in a much better position to succeed (and grabbing it with both hands, for that matter). He’s a guy I wouldn’t have given the time of day a few years ago, but now I look forward to seeing what he’s up to each week. He seems to be a perfect fit for what the NWA needs right now, and vice versa.

    Thunder Rosa and Allysin Kay have definitely been impressing the hell out of me. I’ve seen some women’s matches in the past year, in NXT and in other places, that I did like better, but it’s right up there in the conversation. If I could have had one wish for either of the matches, it would have been for them to let Rosa tap Kay out. The way the matches were structured seemed perfectly set up for it, but seems like no babyface is ever allowed to tap out in 2020. I get it, you don’t want to make your babyfaces look weak, but at some point it’s more satisfying to see someone like Rosa get the submission with superior strategy than to switch gears at the end and finish with a pinfall. Small nitpick though, both matches were really great.

  33. #233
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    Been a while since I've watched but when I did, Thunder Rosa was one of the show's real highlights. Stood out, especially when compared with the other women. No idea how she's getting on now of course but that was one thought I can remember having.

    Aldis... I remember thinking in TNA that there was a point when they went to push him and fans seemed to turn against it simply out of contrarianism, like, you're trying to get him over and we haven't chosen him so we're going to rebel against it. Much like we've seen elsewhere. Then when they finally pulled the trigger on him and went with the whole 'reign of Magnus' thing, I think he had the misfortune of trying to fit into what was a failing show, and a mess in so many ways.

    I always felt that the upsides with him were just so obvious that they almost went without saying, but I can recall seeing him in town not long after I moved (wrestling against Frankie Sloan) and thinking that he was about ready to do something big. I guess it would have been about 8 months later he challenged Tim Storm and the rest is history.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  34. #234
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    I remember they tried to makle a really big deal put him over Sting in a big match and treat it like it was his Clash of the Champions I moment, but it just came off poorly. Definitely didn't help that it came at the end of 2013 when TNA was hitting a really, really rough patch, so bad timing definitely played a part. Really pleased he found his right place and right time, he's definitely off and running with the ball.

    Really enjoyed the Bruisers on this last episode, they feel like a very good fit for the promotion and probably get more attention here than they could get in ROH. Hope they get a lot of use out of them.

  35. #235
    Puerto Rican dude living in Japan Degenerate's Avatar
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    I caught up with the last 2-3 episodes of Powerrr and I enjoyed it a lot.

    I'm really digging Nick Aldis as the NWA Champion. He holds the title well and makes it feel like a big deal. That's something that I can't say about most of the main titleholders at most other companies.

    I also have been digging Ricky Starks. I've seen very little of him but what I have seen has been solid. The Lucky 7 thing with that title is pretty interesting and makes watching the shorter TV Championship matches worthwhile to see if he gets the title shot.

    I'm always surprised when I see the Rock n' Roll Express still pulling out decent matches. Those guys truly know how to work, especially with that type of crowd.

    There's a lot to like about the product, from the titleholders to the women to the names that I know about from their WWE runs like Trevor Murdoch and Aron Stevens. I also like that most matches are straightforward and short - not a lot of wasted brainpower having to process things.

  36. #236
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    Agreed about Aldis, he stands out in a very good way right now.

    Ricky Starks has been kind of bland for me, I feel like the TV title is custom made for a heel so I'm sort of waiting to see who he loses it to. It's funny, we've been saying on NWA: The Legacy Series that if Starks and Stevens switched belts it would make a lot more sense.

    I'm over the novelty of RNR in 2020, if I'm being honest. The studio crowd will eat up their shtick and they can get pops, so more power(rr) to them I suppose, but I'd be happy to see them fade into the sunset.

    I would like to see them continue to tweak the execution of the matches they have, but I do LOVE that they embrace having short matches. Long matches have gone absolutely ridiculously overboard in wrestling today, I'm of the opinion that the average match should be under 10 minutes.

  37. #237
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizfan View Post
    Long matches have gone absolutely ridiculously overboard in wrestling today, I'm of the opinion that the average match should be under 10 minutes.
    Between this bit and the comments about workrate matches in the other thread... This is the most you've sounded like me in some time!

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  38. #238
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    It's very accurate.

    This isn't to say there's no market for that kind of match. Or, like NJPW, where it can be common for the promotion. Without getting all column/essay on everyone, ROH brought that style to light after the folding of WCW. The workrate era started on the independents, and ROH was the biggest spotlight on it. Meanwhile, WWE increased their TV time in a variety of ways, be it with increased PPVs per year, creating NXT in 2010, added time to Raw with the 3rd hour by 2011...etc. And Vince is no dummy, no matter what the internet says. He adapted the TV product to match the growing interest in longer matches. Plus, it served a purpose to fill the increased TV time. Other promotions also started increasing match time...etc.

    In the end, the problem became that we saw longer matches too often. Every promotion needs to get the best value from their roster, and longer matches help. The problem is that it meant sacrificing in other ways. I think in WWE, storytelling and character development took a major hit. I struggle with NJPW for those reasons.

    While the world around wrestling was losing and shortening their attention spans to youtube clips, wrestling was forcing fans to extend theirs. Some did, but I think it's a big reason wrestling isn't as big as it was. There are many many many things wrong with WWE, and their responsibility to the survival of all the other promotions is indirect but still huge. WWE adapts from the innovations found elsewhere, and then other promotions either become like WWE, or do the opposite to fill the void. Over time, this led to lots of overly long matches with talent who aren't able to deliver to that level. Adding to that, but because of the youtube generation, the reduced size of most wrestlers, and the influence of lucha style, more spots became the norm. So matches went longer, spots became standard, and psychology often was left ignored (if not completely obliterated). I won't pretend to know for a fact that it decreased ratings, but I strongly feel it's factor.

    So it's nice to see Raw bring back more squashes. And main events a couple times a year that are explosive brawls for less than 10 minutes with Brock. I can only say it's by reputation as I haven't watched to say for sure, but NJPW is supposed to have had their fair share of similar brawls (one of the recent WrestleKingdoms had a great midcard MMA style match that blew away the supposed 30+minute epic Okada delivered that year, in my opinion).

    And NWA is just creating their own standard by revisiting a classic model. Shorter TV matches, more promos and segments to advance characters and stories, and then delivering longer and more workrate style matches on their PPV.

    It's not revolutionary or genius, but it's a major breath of fresh air in the flip/dive/no sell at full speed style that seems to be increasing on AEW and NXT.

  39. #239
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    Pete, I feel like we have a lot of overlap insofar as the things you like I also like a great deal! The difference is, of course, I like some other things that you find abhorrent.

    I’d say the driving influence of the ROH/indy workrate boom of the 00s is probably 90s All Japan, which pushed a lot of the same stuff and was idolized and imitated by a generation of wrestlers who started off as tape traders. Regardless of where it started, there was definitely a huge push for longer matches in the fandom at one point. I remember a decade or more of fans constantly saying “give these guys 30+ minutes at a PPV”. Now, loads of main events are 30+, probably more so now proportionally than at any point since the pre-Hogan boom. Midcard matches have expanded too, and I agree it’s come at the expense of interesting characters in some promotions.

    So yeah, in summary shorter matches in the NWA are welcome. One hitch I see is that, unlike in the old days (think 80s and early 90s) when most matches were short because they were squash matches, that’s not always the case in NWA. Take the Matt Cross vs. Ricky Starks match from the past episode. It was a 6 minute match, but they worked it like your generic 50/50 indy style match (with fewer dives, but even so) and despite the short time limit, there wasn’t a lot of urgency around it. So I think they have some room to improve, because it’s not the only match I’ve seen worked like that. But even with kinks to work out as workers fight the way their generation is used to wrestling matches, it stands out and it is refreshing.

  40. #240
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Oh there's definitely some overlap, but we don't tend to sound so alike because of all those abhorrent things you like! Good to see you coming around a little

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

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