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  1. #121
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    In the days where house shows did well, they either weren't treated as second class, or the industry was so hot that everyone wanted to see wrestling whenever they could.

    Once you don't have either of those in place it's not a surprise people don't wanna see WWE house shows.

    That said, I'm not sure it's the best idea for anyone else to run that many shows. Feels like a gamble.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  2. #122
    Super Moderator Team Farrell's Avatar
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    I'm not talking your typical "house show" though. Right through to Hogan's time, the general model was that the build and all of the "fuck you/fuck you" took place on TV, but you had to pay to see the resolution. And until the PPV business really took off, that "pay to see the resolution" was the weekly/bi-weekly/monthly (depending on where you lived) live show.

    That's what I'm talking about. They build angles, and you have to be there live to see the matches. Obviously most things are going to culminate on pay per view, otherwise you're limiting your audience quite a bit, but in a traditional model the main event for this weekend's live show loop would be The Dawsons vs Wildcard for the NWA World Tag Team Championships. Or if you're building to that on PPV you do the Wildcard vs King/Homicide rematch with a "there must be a winner" stipulation.

    Use the short nature of TV matches to sell your live event matches. You use that "TV Time Remaining" time limit to have someone like Colt Cabana get within a hair of recapturing the NWA World Heavyweight Championship at the 10 minute mark but time expired, so on this weekend's loop it's Colt vs Aldis with no time limit or with a 60 minute time limit. The bell sounds, the announcers are signing off and Cornette's shouting at the top of his lungs that he just received word that because of the result, this weekend in Athens and Columbus and Augusta, we're going to have the rematch with a 60 minute time limit!

    That's using your weekly television product to drive your live events. And it's doing so in such a way that if you didn't see this week's show, you're not confused by what's happening. You're still getting a match that would make sense to see.

    As of now, nobody is doing that. Why go to an ROH live event, unless you really want to support the product, if you can watch the exact same thing on TV from the comfort of your home? Why go to the WWE house show if the matches on Raw are just as good and just as long?

  3. #123
    Transgender Terror
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    That's part of my confusion over people wanting WWE to televise house shows on the network. It's just redundant to a point.

    I haven't watched all of NWA Powerrr, but what I have seen, I've enjoyed. I dug Aldis as Magnus in TNA and Kamille is a piece of work.

  4. #124
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    Also, I think alot of the house shows now are just tune ups to what you see on TV anyway. Working with the same people, doing the same rough finish you'll see on the PPV.

  5. #125
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    LK, that's why I feel a smaller company is in the best position to change that house show perception. Especially NWA's current setup: since we aren't getting competitive matches on TV, there's a draw to see more action than we catch on Powerrr.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by T.O. View Post
    That's part of my confusion over people wanting WWE to televise house shows on the network. It's just redundant to a point.
    Yeah, I was like this with that 'last ever The Shield match' show WWE did this year. It was nothing more than a house show with a little cherry on the top, and basically complete fluff. It was pretty much pointless, and even the main event was a soft rehash of the Fastlane main.

  7. #127
    Beautiful Fandom Mystic's Avatar
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    Billy Corgan really does have a 20-year plan. I don't know if successes (or lack thereof) will speed it or slow it, but he's definitely working on a patient plan. That used to bother me, but now it's what I like most about the NWA.

    Aldis has his own plan, which I think is similar and different. He recently talked about how CM Punk could get half the revenue for a match. He has tried to call out Okada at times. I think he wants the NWA on PPV to be like big-fight boxing. It's easy to scoff at that, but he has stood on the same stage as Marty Scurll and Cody Rhodes and been as good as both. That 20-year plan, in my opinion, keeps them humble and optimistic. I've recently rewatched All In, NWA 70, and Crockett Cup, and I'm wondering who is putting on better, more consistent, big PPV matches than Nick Aldis.

  8. #128
    Watching some nwa...best chill time ever...im having fun watching wrestling..how about that?

    How old is mama storm? Bet shes got some gray carpet matching some wild gray drapes
    Last edited by Benjamin Button; 10-23-2019 at 04:23 AM.
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  9. #129
    Super Moderator Team Farrell's Avatar
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    I believe they said shew was in her 90s.

    Another stellar NWA show last night. I like that you can tell whomever's putting it together is having fun ("Up Next: Tim Storm (We Promise!!)"), but still managing to keep it mostly serious. The fake commercials which are exactly what old local commercials would be are incredible.

    Here's the amazing thing about this week's NWA show: when it was over, I put on WWE Main Event because I was in the mood to watch more wrestling. Usually when a show ends, I need to take a break for a half hour or whatever to let my brain breathe before more wrestling. But after that show I wanted more.

  10. #130
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Yeah, I enjoyed it again. Found it made a few more demands of the audience than the first two weeks but nothing to really complain about. Enjoyed set-up promo early, the main event and the end of the show, in particular.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  11. #131
    Beautiful Fandom Mystic's Avatar
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    Spoilers from the show mentioned here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Farrell View Post

    Another stellar NWA show last night. I like that you can tell whomever's putting it together is having fun ("Up Next: Tim Storm (We Promise!!)")
    This stood out to me, too. Most promotions I watch begrudge being small and want to pretend they're something else. Each week I count a new way this company is enjoying the process and having fun where they are.

    I was hoping Drake was going to betray Storm. Got a lowkey Austin-Bret, 97, potential. But I did like the ugly look from Aldis after, as if this grotesque not-NWA champion had lured a valuable member of the champions' club into a match and not properly looked out for him.

    I love it being one hour, too. I always end the show wanting more wrestling, which is something I likely haven't felt for decades now.
    Last edited by Mystic; 10-23-2019 at 12:03 PM.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Farrell View Post
    Here's the amazing thing about this week's NWA show: when it was over, I put on WWE Main Event because I was in the mood to watch more wrestling. Usually when a show ends, I need to take a break for a half hour or whatever to let my brain breathe before more wrestling. But after that show I wanted more.
    I had a similar experience recently. I tend to marathon or binge watch anything non WWE or AEW right now. Collect 3-4 Impacts or Fusions in a row, and then sit down to watch them all in a day or 2. And it is often because I finish a WWE show, and I'm done. It's not always because the show is bad or put a bad taste in my mouth. That has happened, especially over the last few weeks. But generally it's because WWE main roster shows are draining. 3 hours of Raw is a long time. 4 hour PPVs. Smackdown is only 2 hours, but until a couple of weeks ago, it was the next day after a 3 hour Raw.

    NWA makes me want more. NXT used to do the same thing when it was on the WWE Network weekly at 1 hour.

  13. #133
    That into the fire stays in the head, doesnt it?
    See the latest of my Ric Flair saga click here. http://lordsofpain.tv/showthread.php...acock-(Part-2) View my story inspired by colorful wrestlers I've come across in my fandom. http://lordsofpain.tv/showthread.php...-the-Challenge

  14. #134

  15. #135
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Played the whole album the other day.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  16. #136
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    I first "discovered" it when watching Nightmare on Elm Street 3. It was a 10-15 second clip through a radio, but I'll have Into the Fire on all my playlists until I die thanks to that clip.

  17. #137
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Power is on tonight. Been looking forward to this for days.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  18. #138
    Beautiful Fandom Mystic's Avatar
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    I looked forward to it all week as well, and it did not disappoint. About to post my reaction in the All About All Elite thread, but basically I'm loving how slowly things are developing but how well. I find the most interesting match down the road to be Aldis-Drake, and I'm loving how Drake is stirring every pot he can get his hand into but then stepping back like he's not doing it. I also love how Aldis is on to him but hasn't fully said it. That slow build to whatever it will be has me fascinated. As I told mizfan, it reminds me of season one of a TV show where everyone in the town has their own secrets and you know they will come out but you don't know when, how, why, or where. Already looking forward to next week.

  19. #139
    The Brain
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    Aldis/Drake definitely feels like something that could be big for them at some point. Hope they stretch it out for a while but they've got to keep interesting people in the mix for Aldis in the meantime. Shane floated the idea to me that they look for an outside challenger for Aldis for the PPV and I think that'd be a smart way to go.

  20. #140
    I love this NWA but I hate Ricky Starks.
    See the latest of my Ric Flair saga click here. http://lordsofpain.tv/showthread.php...acock-(Part-2) View my story inspired by colorful wrestlers I've come across in my fandom. http://lordsofpain.tv/showthread.php...-the-Challenge

  21. #141
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Sadly, I struggled a bit more with this week - if I'm honest and put my cards on the table. Not really NWA's fault, which is why it's sad. It's not like they were the most egregious examples of faults I've ever seen. But I've had some of those things ruined by other people (mainly the WWE, truth be told) doing them so often that you start to notice the artifice, and it took me out of it in places. This is actually a bit of a longstanding fear - that even if you get someone trying to appeal to me, other people fucking up for so long will mean they don't have the room to move.

    Still, I'm trying to stay optimistic. I still got more out of it than most other wrestling shows I've seen in years, but less than I did out of the first couple of weeks.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  22. #142
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    Can you be more specific of what was bugging you?

  23. #143
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I can, though I'm trying not to dwell on it too much so I'll probably be quick about it. And I'm aware that many of these are the sort of things that won't bother other people.

    I also don't really want to be negative because I hate when you're trying to be positive about something and people delight in thrusting their negative opinions in your face. But as I've been asked, I will elaborate, but I'm going to say if you don't wanna hear me grumbling then just stop reading now. Frankly, I wouldn't blame anyone who has been enjoying the show from skipping the rest of what I've got to say.
    -------------------------------------------------------



















    So, from the start you've got a situation where Nick Aldis basically comes out and makes a match for later in the same show. It's better done than I've seen in a lot of places, but it occurred to me this is something I've been critical of WWE doing and it honestly doesn't make a lot of sense. What, did NWA not have a main event lined up? Do Nick Aldis and James Storm just have the power to make matches without anyone else say so? As I say, as an example of the genre this was well done, but I've seen this so many times over the years that the lack of sense behind it really strikes home now.

    Kingston/Homicide vs The Dawsons - partly that this style of wrestling has been ruined for me almost entirely, and it is probably that more than anything else. I just mentally tuned out of it, possibly because enough hasn't been done to 'earn' the stipulation when you're only on show 4. Now, in the name of consistency, I suppose I should say that I've also been critical of other promotions for throwing gimmicks at free TV rather than saving them for when they mean something, and once I'd checked out, the criticism that I've levelled at others did cross my mind.

    It'll be a super minor point to some, but to me the drums over Thunder Rosa's bit had exactly the same effect as, say, an invisible camera. A shame, because I enjoyed the run-in, but the second they struck up, I was just mentally out of there again.

    That's it, really - as I say, hardly the most egregious things in the world but nowadays I've had so much tanked for me that it doesn't take much to shatter the effect - and I think I've only had a real problem with maybe one segment in the first three shows, so to jump to three in one felt quite different.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  24. #144
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    I'll never judge anyone for something that takes them out of a show like that. Things aren't things I've ever noticed, and I can likely forgive now that I'll notice it every single time (THANKS A LOT, PRIME!!!). But I just watched Dynamite, and had very similar feeling about different things.

    To me, taking more time to set up a move than to actually perform the move is awful.
    Playing to the crowd longer than it takes to do the move is awful.
    So Young Bucks and Kenny Omega were awful.

    Obviously, different complaints, but same effect on my enjoyment of a wrestling show.

  25. #145
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Haha, I did warn you at the start there!

    Oh, and I agree with you about the rest. I don't even watch AEW because I know that shit will fuck me off. So I just think, why put yourself through it?

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  26. #146
    Super Moderator Team Farrell's Avatar
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    I managed to watch Power the night it came out finally! I enjoyed the hell out of the show yet again.

    Ashley Vox is starting to grow on me. But you can really tell who the pro is when she's standing in the ring with Thunder Rosa. I wonder if the weird unmatching piecemeal gear thing was at the behest of NWA to make her look less like a star than the stars that they're trying to push. If so, then it's a smart decision.

    I liked the sort of wild west feeling at the end where we had the main event, but the main event ended before TV time was over and the Dawsons came out ready for a fight.

    The only thing that I'm really noticing is that I don't know if they were 100% on when their PPV was going to be when they taped the shows. I would expect that with the finish of that last match, we'd have had an announcement for Into the Fire. There's a lot of crisscrossing angles, and a lot of matches that'll make sense to have on the PPV, but I wonder if they had a firm name or date to build toward at the time of taping.

    I imagine that'll get sorted moving forward, but I would like to see a little bit more build to something. Like I said before, traditionally these shows are used to build toward that week's live shows and while NWA doesn't appear to have that infrastructure in place right now, I hope that they get it.

    I feel that eight+ weeks is a little long to build with this particular format. I don't know what Into the Fire will cost on FITE (though, I'll likely buy it) but I think that they could pretty easily get away with holding a monthly iPPV event there in the $10 range as a bit of a money maker, with quarterly big iPPV shows shot at a venue in the Atlanta area.

    That way you have something a little quicker to build to.

    That's my only real complaint is that I feel that this particular style of show is better suited to building to a monthly bigger show rather than over a long period of time.

  27. #147
    The Brain
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    My favorite bit of the show was Aron Stevens. I was rooting hard for him to succeed in TNA but he's a gimmick/character guy, and most of the time he was there they tried to put him over as a no-gimmick guy. He just doesn't have the chops for it. But here you've got so much good stuff, from the crowd interaction to that awful gear to the way he put over Starks in a classic ass-showing heel performance was just perfect.

    Really interested in what they're doing with Aldis, at times he comes off as shady but at times he seems like a shining beacon for the company. The best part of it is that it feels very intentional. His pep talk to Tim Storm particularly caught my attention.

  28. #148
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I really like what they have done with Stevens, too. I'd say the stuff with Starks is actually going to stick in the memory a lot longer than many things that are technically better performed, but less well constructed.

    Didn't have any trouble with the show this week. Breezed through the whole thing. Good Times.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  29. #149
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    Trevor Murdoch is growing on me quick, I liked the presentation for Thunder Rosa (though the drums are a bit much when they pop up randomly), I loved Aron Stevens once again, I liked that the Question Mark squash was a true old school squash, a one sided match made to look one guy look like a big deal, I liked the Cabana/Starks interaction and how organic it felt, and all the intrigue around Aldis/Kamille continues to interest me. I hope they have a good payoff for it, I expect that they will!

    On the flip side, I don't really see anything in Marti Belle, though at least they've consigned to her a supporting role. I also don't see much of anything in the extremely nondescript tag champions, and I think putting cleanly over a team with some buzz in short order is a misstep. The only advantages Latimer and Isaacs have, as far as I can tell, is it's very unlikely any other company will bother trying to poach them.

    Mr Anderson remains a channel changer for me and I dislike the idea of Eli Drake being saddled with him, though if he's there to simply put Drake over then I'm somewhat mollified.

    I do think the lack of substantial matches can detract for me, I'm appreciative of short matches with a clear purpose but it seems almost everything is in the 1-2 minute range and in some cases the person intended to look like a star doesn't come across very strong. I don't mind it as a change of pace but I think they could put a little more emphasis on the feature match of the week instead of rushing through title matches in 5 minutes or less.

  30. #150
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I think you've got to run even a title match short, from time to time, to get the full effect of what they are doing.

    I'm with you on Marti being better in a supporting role on the early evidence, and to be honest I think that the tags have been the weakest aspect all round (if you ignore Kingston on the mic). Several things I'm into but none of the teams factor in to it yet.

    But, conversely, I think Anderson has been.... meh, fine for him. I'm not really a fan either as you know but he's not bothering me. And I tend to think the guys winning the matches are coming off fine, too.

    So I agree on some and am more positive on others!

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  31. #151
    The Brain
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    I don't disagree that a short title match now and then could be beneficial, but unless I'm wrong so far Aldis/Storm is the only one that got any real time. But it's early days, so we'll see. In part I'm just salty that Kingston, who is one of the most compelling guys to me, ate such a quick pin from a team that is the opposite of compelling. The context that they did it because he tweaked his leg was something, but even so!

    I'll try to be fair, Anderson hasn't been egregiously bad, but I don't think he's brought anything to the table and based on the majority of his career I just don't expect him too. He's rarely been more than a catchphrase and a semi-name putting over more promising talent is, in my eyes, all he's good for. If that's all they use him for, I won't complain too much (maybe!).

  32. #152
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    There was at least one tag match that ran on long enough that I lost interest in it. But to be honest, I think the show almost needs to re-educate a little bit, to change expectations, or the concept ain't going to fly. Gotta get people out of the 'needs to have more x matches on Power' mindset, because no, the match just goes as long as it goes. Then when you get the great little TV match it's got more value.

    The other thing that I've spotted that needs re-education is that people have lost appreciation for the value of confusion. That used to be one of the great motivators to get you to watch the following week but I saw plenty of people complaining about it. But pandering to those folks because they've gotten used to bad wrestling tropes and being catered to that way would be a real shame in this case.

    I don't think Anderson has brought much either, to be honest, but let's be frank - it ain't like they've got a full toy chest to work with. They don't have the resources of a lot of other places.

    But I think more to the point, this is the kind of show that will benefit massively from taking the more holistic approach that we used to watch with, rather than picking at particular elements (as has become the post-MNW norm). You could argue that all wrestling shows would be better if fans would focus not on what a talent 'is good for' but more on what they are doing in the moment, and even though that's almost certainly true I'd go further and say where you've got this kind of set-up achieving that should a) be more possible, and b) be far more rewarding than you're going to get from the schizophrenic buffets you can get in other products.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  33. #153
    Beautiful Fandom Mystic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Farrell View Post

    I feel that eight+ weeks is a little long to build with this particular format. I don't know what Into the Fire will cost on FITE (though, I'll likely buy it) but I think that they could pretty easily get away with holding a monthly iPPV event there in the $10 range as a bit of a money maker, with quarterly big iPPV shows shot at a venue in the Atlanta area.

    That way you have something a little quicker to build to.
    I feel opposite on this one. A big reason I watch is to get away from that monthly set-reset program that we're all way too used to. I wouldn't be opposed to having a big match on Power that they build to randomly from time-to-time, but I really don't want to see the monthly PPV format in any fashion.

  34. #154
    The Brain
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    The other thing that I've spotted that needs re-education is that people have lost appreciation for the value of confusion. That used to be one of the great motivators to get you to watch the following week but I saw plenty of people complaining about it. But pandering to those folks because they've gotten used to bad wrestling tropes and being catered to that way would be a real shame in this case.
    I do see value in this, but it'll be a hard one to unlearn. The biggest three American promotions of the last 20 years are WWE, WCW, and TNA, and at times all have earnestly taught fans to set low expectations when it comes to playing out storylines. That shouldn't be held against the NWA, but I'm not surprised to see it crop up. I admit I'm wondering a bit at the convoluted story they are building. I'm feeling confident they have something solid in mind so I'm pleased to wait, but I think there's also such a thing as too much confusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    But I think more to the point, this is the kind of show that will benefit massively from taking the more holistic approach that we used to watch with, rather than picking at particular elements (as has become the post-MNW norm). You could argue that all wrestling shows would be better if fans would focus not on what a talent 'is good for' but more on what they are doing in the moment, and even though that's almost certainly true I'd go further and say where you've got this kind of set-up achieving that should a) be more possible, and b) be far more rewarding than you're going to get from the schizophrenic buffets you can get in other products.
    This is a bigger ask, for me. I subscribe in part to the holistic approach you mention, but I'm not going to be able to stop thinking analytically about what I see, and what I've seen in the past will inevitably be part of that. It's just how I process, well, everything, not just wrestling. If I see Mr Anderson taking up a space but not doing anything with it to interest me outside of simplistic 15 year old WWE shtick, it's going to stick out to me! Even in a promotion that excels on atmosphere and cohesive presentation, weak links are going to stand out at times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic View Post
    I feel opposite on this one. A big reason I watch is to get away from that monthly set-reset program that we're all way too used to. I wouldn't be opposed to having a big match on Power that they build to randomly from time-to-time, but I really don't want to see the monthly PPV format in any fashion.
    I'm feeling this, for sure. The monthly cycle can be quite the grind, as we've seen over the years. I would like to see a few more big matches on Power in the meantime (sorry, Pete!!) but I'm definitely fine with keeping the really big events spread out.

  35. #155
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizfan View Post
    I do see value in this, but it'll be a hard one to unlearn. The biggest three American promotions of the last 20 years are WWE, WCW, and TNA, and at times all have earnestly taught fans to set low expectations when it comes to playing out storylines. That shouldn't be held against the NWA, but I'm not surprised to see it crop up. I admit I'm wondering a bit at the convoluted story they are building. I'm feeling confident they have something solid in mind so I'm pleased to wait, but I think there's also such a thing as too much confusion.
    I don't know about 'too much', but there's definitely good and bad confusion. If you look at it when you're supposed to know what's going on and don't get it, that's bad confusion. If you look at it and you aren't supposed to know everything yet, that's good confusion. But I've noticed that wrestling fans have gotten - hell, let's call it what it is - so egotistical that they can't bear the idea that they don't know everything immediately. I'm not talking about anyone here for the record, but you do see these people around. It's probably because it contradicts their sense that they know everything as much as the people in wrestling. But for those of us who don't feel like being a 'mark' was ever some kind of deadly insult, it's not a problem to not know everything all of the time. Not knowing how something is going to play out and wanting to tune in next week to find out was always one of wrestling's strongest draw cards, and if they can re-educate fans to that, it's vital.


    Quote Originally Posted by mizfan View Post
    This is a bigger ask, for me. I subscribe in part to the holistic approach you mention, but I'm not going to be able to stop thinking analytically about what I see, and what I've seen in the past will inevitably be part of that. It's just how I process, well, everything, not just wrestling. If I see Mr Anderson taking up a space but not doing anything with it to interest me outside of simplistic 15 year old WWE shtick, it's going to stick out to me! Even in a promotion that excels on atmosphere and cohesive presentation, weak links are going to stand out at times.
    I get this, I really do. I also get that since you've started watching wrestling, there's been literally no one to offer you this, so I'd be asking you to approach wrestling in a completely new way. I guess what I'm trying to say here is that if you've got the holistic approach, then there has to be light and shade, and you aren't going to get the most out of it if you get hung up about the moments of shade. The real best way to achieve that - and to maintain it - is to make sure that there is a contrast between the full on light, and the shade. I think what I'm driving at here is try - if you can - to get out of the mindset that everyone needs to be impressing you, all the time. We've got a phrase here in cricket, where a bowler is said to 'hold down an end'. They aren't going to win the match, but they can do a job well enough to keep things ticking over. That's what some midcard acts basically have to do on a well-balanced product. Now, if Ken starts finding himself in more prominent positions - different story. Hold him to a higher standard. But as long as he's doing what he's doing, the goal should simply be to professionally 'hold down an end'.

    Quote Originally Posted by mizfan View Post
    I'm feeling this, for sure. The monthly cycle can be quite the grind, as we've seen over the years. I would like to see a few more big matches on Power in the meantime (sorry, Pete!!) but I'm definitely fine with keeping the really big events spread out.

    Got no problem with the occasional bigger match on Power, so long as it's advertised and built properly. In fact, having them, but occasionally having them end quickly too, might be the best of both worlds for trying to create what they are going after.

    I definitely wouldn't want to see them running more than 6 events a year - and I think 4 is probably ideal. This is really all about being an alternative and I think a big key to that will be the pacing.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  36. #156
    Do you guys think Camille's not talking because shes ashamed of something she did with Wild Card?
    See the latest of my Ric Flair saga click here. http://lordsofpain.tv/showthread.php...acock-(Part-2) View my story inspired by colorful wrestlers I've come across in my fandom. http://lordsofpain.tv/showthread.php...-the-Challenge

  37. #157
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    Interesting question. I believe I heard Kamille is married to Thomas Latimer (a risky proposition, based on his history, but neither here nor there) so I wonder if that will factor in somehow, though I'm not sure how. It is especially odd that she won't speak at all. If she merely has a secret, she could just speak on other things and not spill the beans, rather than arouse suspicion by not speaking at all. So logically, either it's something so big that she doesn't trust herself not to blurt it out (unlikely, based on her demeanor?) or she really is being coerced into keeping silent.

    That or she legitimately just doesn't want to talk to anyone!!! That would be the most relatable outcome, though probably not the most exciting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    I get this, I really do. I also get that since you've started watching wrestling, there's been literally no one to offer you this, so I'd be asking you to approach wrestling in a completely new way. I guess what I'm trying to say here is that if you've got the holistic approach, then there has to be light and shade, and you aren't going to get the most out of it if you get hung up about the moments of shade. The real best way to achieve that - and to maintain it - is to make sure that there is a contrast between the full on light, and the shade. I think what I'm driving at here is try - if you can - to get out of the mindset that everyone needs to be impressing you, all the time. We've got a phrase here in cricket, where a bowler is said to 'hold down an end'. They aren't going to win the match, but they can do a job well enough to keep things ticking over. That's what some midcard acts basically have to do on a well-balanced product. Now, if Ken starts finding himself in more prominent positions - different story. Hold him to a higher standard. But as long as he's doing what he's doing, the goal should simply be to professionally 'hold down an end'.
    I like this perspective and think it's actually a reminder, sometimes guys just need to take up the space they're taking up. Part of me thinks they've already done more with Anderson than he's worth but that could definitely be my bias talking.

    It does bring to mind the fact that often my favorite guys are ones who impress me quietly and in small ways. Arn Anderson is probably the best example of this, his whole career is lean on spotlight matches and money promos and yet he's one of my absolute favorites because he kills it in every small moment. He's surely one in a million though, so neither here nor there.

  38. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic View Post
    I feel opposite on this one. A big reason I watch is to get away from that monthly set-reset program that we're all way too used to. I wouldn't be opposed to having a big match on Power that they build to randomly from time-to-time, but I really don't want to see the monthly PPV format in any fashion.
    The primary reason I'd like to see more is that the overall format of studio wrestling lends itself to a more immediate payoff. The reason it existed is that it allowed the territories to push what you'd see on that week's loop.

    Josepheus threw powder into Colt's eyes, and now this weekend in Macon, the two are going to go at it in a bunkhouse match.

    I'm also hoping that future PPV moves out of GPB studios. This time around, it works because it's what's over (and most importantly it's where the TV equipment resides) but I'm hoping that they move out of the studio for PPV so we can get the "bells and whistles" events with entrance music, screens and whatnot to both makes those shows seem bigger and to differentiate them from Power.

    I'm a little worried that Into the Fire will be basically a two and a half hour long episode of Power with longer matches. And while the weekly show ends after an hour with me wanting more, I'm not sure that a 150% increase will necessarily do the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by mizfan View Post
    Interesting question. I believe I heard Kamille is married to Thomas Latimer (a risky proposition, based on his history, but neither here nor there) so I wonder if that will factor in somehow, though I'm not sure how. It is especially odd that she won't speak at all. If she merely has a secret, she could just speak on other things and not spill the beans, rather than arouse suspicion by not speaking at all. So logically, either it's something so big that she doesn't trust herself not to blurt it out (unlikely, based on her demeanor?) or she really is being coerced into keeping silent.

    That or she legitimately just doesn't want to talk to anyone!!! That would be the most relatable outcome, though probably not the most exciting.
    Aldis seemed pretty upset that she was there. I wonder if this is going to become something where they'll reveal that she's married to Latimer so she's concerned for her husband and his tag titles, but Aldis is paying her for services and as long as she's on the clock he wants 100% of her attention on him.

    I know it had to happen, but humanizing Kamille is almost a little too bad. I sort of liked her as the silent backup. That silent gravitas where she's able to stare down the grown men and stop them in their tracks without having to say a single word or even blink makes her come off like a real badass without having to manhandle guys.

  39. #159
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    Aldis seemed pretty upset that she was there. I wonder if this is going to become something where they'll reveal that she's married to Latimer so she's concerned for her husband and his tag titles, but Aldis is paying her for services and as long as she's on the clock he wants 100% of her attention on him.
    That would make a degree of sense, but why then would she refuse to speak at all when asked? Hm...

  40. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizfan View Post
    It does bring to mind the fact that often my favorite guys are ones who impress me quietly and in small ways. Arn Anderson is probably the best example of this, his whole career is lean on spotlight matches and money promos and yet he's one of my absolute favorites because he kills it in every small moment. He's surely one in a million though, so neither here nor there.
    I doubt many would disagree with you. I certainly wouldn't. But, the question then evolves to "is Arn Anderson a missed main event star?" There is no right or wrong answer, but I think it brings up how often "we" as smart fans claim to see who deserves the next big shot. But Arn is a guy who everyone loves and respects, but never seems to appear in discussion for someone who deserved a world title but never got it, along with DiBiase for example.

    And I'm not trying to say this to start a conversation about who deserves a shot, but rather pointing out that a role as supporting cast member might be perfect for some people, without becoming the main draw. Mr Kennedy/Anderson for example. I too have no real interest in seeing him vie for the NWA World Title, but at the same time I feel all fans should be open to the possibility that NWA can create a story where we would enjoy such an idea.

    So many online fans point out the people who deserve better, and the common names in every promotion tends to be a good 25% of the entire roster at least (with WWE, it feels like it's 75% of the undercard should have been 27 times WWE champ by now, according to online fans). It goes back to something Prime Time was establishing, but so many fans tend to decide what role someone should be in, instead of enjoying the role they are in. We point out the flaws in a show more than discuss the positives. We point out what is missing instead of the strengths that exist.

    It's hard to put into words, but I feel most here would agree that we all watch wrestling differently, and I remember feedback from my PEN15 Mightier work making me feel like I was the only one who watched wrestling the way I did. And one of the differences was that I didn't watch with expectations other did. I just watched to see what would happen. I know I've posted here pointing out others who basically make a statement that the solution to whatever issue they have with a show is a singular option, and all other options would be unacceptable. That's so insanely dangerous to enjoy a show. Even a smaller promotion like NWA will have a few creative minds inputting ideas, and that's not including the performers who likely pitch in as well. The more people involved with this process, the more story ideas can be created. And therefore, more solutions to whatever issue we might have.

    Sticking to NWA, I sense a lot of negativity to the tag division so far. No one seems to care about the Wild Card, and the Dawsons are labeled as generic bigger men. While Kingston is reviled as the best talker in the company, and therefore misused when he gets pinned. This is completely forgetting that Kingston is likely the biggest name in the tag division so far, and if he's got the best mic skills, then he's the best equipped to talk himself out of a pinfall loss and get his heat back. All while losing to the Dawsons or Wild Card would help establish them. But some people just see Kingston taking a pin, and say NWA screwed up.

    It's maddening to discuss wrestling (or any other medium) with people who think this way. It's also why I feel the online fans are the most negative and therefore the least interesting group of fans to book towards. AEW does a smart job catering to this crowd, while also trying to increasing their fanbase from other avenues. But most promotions seems to understand that the incessant negativity from the increasingly fickle online fanbase is doomed from the start. The minute they get something right, "we" are looking for what went wrong. Fewer people seem to just be sitting back and watch a show for the show.

    I watched Doctor Sleep over the weekend. Great movie, with an even more impressive book. I didn't care for any version of the Shining, but loved the sequel book and movie. And yet most people I discussed it with talked about the differences between both, or the original. Instead of sitting back and enjoying the movie for what it was, they commented on how it didn't meet their expectations.

    I'll admit, I've been victim to this. I've only seen the first of the Lord of the Rings movies from Peter Jackson, and a big reason I didn't enjoy it or decide to watch the others was that it didn't capture the magic of the books for me. But the reason I feel it's an exception is because it was just a bad execution of a good story. I know, uncommon opinion, but there are certain elements of modern TV/film-making that don't work for me (CGI, primarily). But, even if I do agree that I have the same negativity towards LOTR/Hobbit movies as wrestling fans do, I stopped watching those movies. Online fans keep watching despite hating. Not everyone. I'm refreshed by the amount of people on LOP who honestly stopped watching WWE as they genuinely stopped enjoying it and found other options.

    Such as NWA, which I don't want to change a thing. I just enjoy watching it weekly as is.

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