View Poll Results: Which is your favourite of the Big 4 leagues?

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  • National Basketball Association

    4 28.57%
  • National Football League

    3 21.43%
  • National Hockey League

    3 21.43%
  • Major League Baseball

    4 28.57%
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  1. #41
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    I'm surpried we have 13 people who voted lol.

  2. #42
    Senior Member LWO4Life's Avatar
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    14, basketball and baseball are tied.

  3. #43
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LK3185 View Post
    It doesn't matter Powder's feelings on the game today when if i'm assuming correctly, that's not why Prime doesn't 'get' basketball. I don't understand that myself. Every sport has certain goals and rules attached. Basketball you put the ball in the hole or defend from teams doing that lol.
    I'm going to assume that you're not just being deliberately glib, and I'll try and explain then. I like sports that appear to have a certain logic to them, and the way that you play them not just to the ends of scoring. Any idiot can watch soccer and think 'oh you just kick a ball into the net' but the thing that makes it interesting to me is do you play short or direct, do you line with up a three, four, or five man midfield/defence, who wins the individual battles between centre half and centre forward, do you try and play it out from the back, etc. In the NFL the obvious distinction is whether you move the ball primarily on the ground or through the air, and what the opposition does to counter that, but of course there's much more to it than that. In Rugby there's a simple opposition between trying to play for possession and move the ball yourself or to try and play for territory and press the opposition into giving you the ball in advantageous positions, as well as choices between the pick and go, kicking the ball into space or touch, and throwing the ball around.

    It boils down to this - there's a tactical level there in each of those games that, beyond the rules, makes something into an interesting spectator sport rather than just a fun game that you'd play to stay in shape (which unlike pretty much all the others sports we've talked about here is Basketball's origin). Without that extra level I would see no appeal in watching sport, and there'd only be any enjoyment in playing it.

    I am sure that Basketball has that and am looking forward to trying to get to grips with what's in LWO4Life's post above, but I have never been able to see any of it for myself. It has always looked to me like no more than a group of guys throwing the ball around in a pretty random fashion until someone shoots and either scores or misses - and that the misses are paradoxically more important than the baskets.

    Now I know that has to be wrong or it wouldn't be as popular as it is. Before anyone tries to come back at me for that, let me repeat, I know there must be more to the game. But I also know that I've never been able to get what that 'more' is.

    So yeah, that should be clearer.




    I for one am glad to see all the leagues getting votes. It's a good one not to have a runaway winner on.
    Last edited by Prime Time; 09-18-2018 at 07:15 AM.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  4. #44
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    Prime, if you want to "get basketball", and I am not speaking in hyperbole but go and watch any of the Lakers vs Celtics finals from the 1980s. Every game in any of the series show the true sport of basketball, before it was completely corrupted by the "I must show off and try to be come the next Michael Jordan to get on SportsCenter" player.

    Every player on both teams understood how to play, pass, use each other and play a complete team game. Within 10-12 years, the game moved into a me first, selfish game where players are truly only concerned with image, getting on highlight reels, and sneaker deals. There is a reason that of the 24 Lakers/Celtics of the 80s, that about 12-15 Hall of Famers.

  5. #45
    Senior Member LWO4Life's Avatar
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    Well anyways, if you are interested, here is a video of the Princeton Offense. Many of the offenses today are based in the Princeton offense. It's very pass heavy, so the whole, "they just pass the ball," is explained here.

  6. #46
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Oh yeah, I am interested and this is helping. I could probably still do with it being dumbed down a touch to be honest (especially as I'm not really up on a lot of the terminology), but yeah, I think I'm getting a bit more. The bit on the previous page about Jordan is the sort of thing I was driving at in my last post, for sure.

    Thanks to Powder too for his recommendation, because one of the things that really drew me into baseball was that the history of it, and while it obviously isn't going to go back into the nineteenth century and be quite as illustrious as baseball's I think the fact that I don't really know any of it, or what the major rivalries are, what makes a game more or less significant over time, doesn't help. That kind of thing can really draw you in but I think the only thing I really know other than a handful of names are that the 1990s Bulls were awesome, and that's it. So getting to grips with a famous game isn't the worst idea in the world to try and get past that.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  7. #47
    Senior Member LWO4Life's Avatar
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    Hum... let's see, well I'll try to in future post. But yeah, there is some stuff for now. If you couldn't tell with Princeton offense, it's an offense that is based out of Princeton University, and Princeton being an Ivy League school, isn't know for having the best basketball players. So in the 90's, early 2000's, Greg Poppavich started to use this offense, and he started drafting "European" players (Manu Ginóbili is from Argentina, Tim Duncan is from British Virgin Island, but let's not ruin a good narrative), and winning by playing team ball. The idea you get more team base players who have fundamentals and can pass, and be unselfish, and put them in a system that is focused on that. Basically, stop playing that Michael Jordan one on one ball, (called isolation), and start playing that good ol' European (actually Princeton, Massachusetts but whatever, keep that narrative) team basketball and get back to the basics of passing, defense, and stop that flashy dunking. Of course now, many teams run the Princeton, BUT, since players are bigger, fast, stronger, they are running the Princeton, but with flashy results now. So many fans don't know when the era of MJ and Kobe ball hogging ended, and the era of passing and team ball began, because to the average fan, it all looks the same, but now with more passes.

  8. #48
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    I understand better what you're saying Prime, I've just watched sports for so long that I was thinking about the end result of it all.. Every sport evolves and I've found lately, that with Basketball, Football, Baseball... The teams aren't playing that different from each other. I mean in football, you'll have different offenses and play styles, but because the rules have altered to favor the passing game, you're not gonna see many if any teams run a smash mouth offense...

    In basketball, play style has evolved to focus more on the three point shot even from 10 years ago. The best teams run a motion offense that tries to get everyone involved.. its less isolation ball although that still happens. Teams playing a more post style and iso game tend to be less successful so that's why most play very similar.


    For me, I really enjoy the athletic ablity and grace it takes to play the sport so even when it goes iso, or more a two man game with the pick and roll, I'm fasicated by how a player beats his man if he can, and make the shot.

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