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  1. #1
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    Lance Storm rant about Dave Meltzer and Star Ratings

    Wasn't sure where to post this but found this before bed. Not sure when this was posted, but I mostly with Lance's idea that people should just enjoy wrestling and not grade it like a math problem.

    Also the point about angles/promos vs. The good matches of this era is a good one.


  2. #2
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    I'd tend to agree mostly with Lance here because I feel like sometimes people can get obsessed with the idea of star ratings, the style of wrestling they represent and refuse to enjoy anything outside of the 'style' that those ratings cater to. I think Lance is particularly on the money when 'ratings' are used as a way of dismissing something someone else got enjoyment out of.

    That said I do know that some people enjoy the analytic aspect of rating things so as long as it doesn't get in the way of their enjoyment who am I to judge?

    I certainly don't think they are gospel by any means and they certainly don't account for all aspects of a match. Just look at something like Hogan/Andre for example, I'm not sure what Dave rated it but I'd be betting 2.5 stars at best yet you'd be hard pressed to find a more important match to the history of pro wrestling.



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  3. #3
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    Yeah, I don't care if people are into star ratings. I just think when Lance says it shouldn't matter what match happened last week or six months ago.. Wrestling is very in the moment. I watched Gargano and Black last night and I thought it was the best WWE match i've seen all year. Judging it against other matches just makes my head hurt.

  4. #4
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    Absolutely agree. If in the moment you think it is the best match you've seen then that is that. I know some fans that will on y ever watch a match once. Then there are also guys like Plan and Doc who studiously go back and rewatch things. Neither way is better unless you are doing a serious ratings or review piece in which case you probably do need to watch it more than once to get some of the nuance.



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  5. #5
    The Brain
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    I find star ratings very useful. I use them myself to keep track of my personal favorite matches, and often I use the ones set by others, Meltzer included, to help guide me on what to watch next. But most definitely they are always going to be highly subjective. There is no such thing as an objective 5 star match, or an objective match of any kind. I mark matches purely by how much I enjoyed them, but others may be looking at crowd reaction, or the moves themselves, or other specifics that matter most to them. All you can tell by a star rating is how much the reviewer liked the match, and that's about the extent of it.

  6. #6
    Senior Member LWO4Life's Avatar
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    I'm very old school. I never even knew star ratings existed prior to 2010, I was already 30 and watching wrestling for 25 years, and once I found out what they were, I immediately thought they were stupid. LOL... Over time I've soften up on my opinion on them. All it is to me is a guide from fans who follow and trust a guys opinion on what they should watch. In the years I started watching wrestling, in the 80's and 90's, I don't think stars really mattered because you didn't have much choice as to what to watch. In today's environment, and this is why I think stars get talked about A LOT more today than before, there is so much wrestling out there that fans need a direction to be pointed to see what they want to see. I'm not so much of an old school minded fan that I don't understand that. But with me, and this is just me, I need a good story leading up to the match. Give me a heel I hate, give me a baby face I want to see win, give me intense promos, and give me a storyline to hook me in. WWE for the most part has failed at all of this lately, so I don't care how great a match is, if I'm not invested then I don't really care.

  7. #7
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I find them kind of anathema to me, but it's not the star ratings themselves so much as the ongoing obsession with rating, comparing, analysing, rather than truly investing in the product, that really bothers me, and I think that it's led to both the kind of fans and kind of wrestling that make it really hard for me to give a fuck. I've become more and more convinced that it's not really possible to be in the moment enough to really love wrestling in the way that I feel brings it to its highest point and to maintain that analytical framework. One requires intimacy, the other distance: I have a sneaking suspicion that when people think they've combined them to manage both, they end up doing neither. So I guess it's not so much them as the sense that they are the ultimate symbol of a whole set of ideas and tendencies that I don't like.

    I'm not ready to throw objectivity out of the window completely, and I don't think most people are when you start to dig into the consequences of what that means down the line. But I would go as far as to agree that there wouldn't be such a thing as an objective five star or perfect match, and at that point it does just become about the 'eye of the beholder' and their taste.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  8. #8
    The Brain
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    I've become more and more convinced that it's not really possible to be in the moment enough to really love wrestling in the way that I feel brings it to its highest point and to maintain that analytical framework. One requires intimacy, the other distance: I have a sneaking suspicion that when people think they've combined them to manage both, they end up doing neither.
    You trying to tell me I don't love me some wrestling, Pete?

  9. #9
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Haha, forgot I hadn't answered this - and no, obviously I wouldn't dream of it!

    The key bit in there for me is 'love wrestling to it's highest point', and I do feel looking around it's impossible to really be in the moment enough to reach that level if you're thinking about someone as a 'character', thinking about how this plays into their 'arc', worrying about the long term ramifications about what it means for the 'programme', or even whether the match you've just seen was as 'good' as the one you saw last year.

    Truth be told, your remarkable commitment to all kinds of stuff often make me second guess a lot of my theories but I've come to the conclusion that you're a bit of an exception and that the rule usually still holds.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  10. #10
    The Brain
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    Wouldn't be the first time my weird brain made me the odd one out! But I'm glad to shake your theories a little. Maybe there are more out there like me than you think.

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