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  1. #81
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    I doubt it. Kenny Omega is a big star within pro wrestling's hardcore fanbase, but I don't think your average person knows who he is.

    I'm talking about trying to attract the attention of the people who only watch Raw and maybe Smackdown, that's their wrestling viewership for the week. They don't watch NXT or 205 Live or any other wrestling. Those people have probably heard the name Kenny Omega in passing, but couldn't pick him out of a lineup.

    So while Kenny signing would create a ton of buzz within the wrestling community, and I think he should be the centrepiece of the entire company and could be one of the biggest stars in the US if they can get eyeballs on him, I don't think that he's the guy who's going to get that initial viewership.

  2. #82
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    I think the TV deal and what kind of exposure it grants AEW is more important than any one talent because TNA has been in simliar situations and brought in WWE stars only for it to be a small spike in interest and then due to mismanagement or what have you, they've wound up streaming shows on twitch.

    If Khan is willing to spend and they have good tv deal, they can add that big name a few months after that or hope that the shows get good word of mouth around and build that way. It doesn't have to be Orton either and he might not even bring those casual viewers. What i'm trying to say is if you're only getting a short spike of viewers because brought in a WWE name, there are other guys to go after.

    Bring in Goldberg for an appearence.... etc.

    The guys coming up for contracts, like AJ Styles currently i'd say is a bigger name than Orton who is still majorly over. And would fit. Go after him.
    Last edited by LK3185; 02-06-2019 at 05:49 PM.

  3. #83
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I'm not exactly the best judge of this, so I'll open it up as a question for others. Do you get much more out of having Orton than you'd already have out of having Jericho?

    It could be that I underestimating the reach of Orton but it seems to me that the only real thing he might have over him is that he's 10 years younger.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  4. #84
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    Well, Jericho hasn't been on WWE TV for awhile. Orton is about to challenge for the WWE title. So that might be a factor... But i'm not sure how big a factor.

    I'd def say Jericho is a bigger star..

    And I also think anyone that would pull in casuals would probably be Cena or The Rock.. which we know ain't happening.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    I'm not exactly the best judge of this, so I'll open it up as a question for others. Do you get much more out of having Orton than you'd already have out of having Jericho?

    It could be that I underestimating the reach of Orton but it seems to me that the only real thing he might have over him is that he's 10 years younger.
    I mean, not really. I've never seen Jericho as a major major star, but he's done a masterful job convincing the entire world that he is over the last 18 months.

    I would put Orton in the same boat, but I see him as someone that more modern wrestling fans would recognize. Again, if I only watch Raw and Smackdown each week, Jericho is a pretty big star but Orton is a guy who's on top and marketed as a god among men today. That whole RKO outta nowhere meme made him a weird hit with kids a few years ago, too.
    Quote Originally Posted by LK3185 View Post
    Well, Jericho hasn't been on WWE TV for awhile. Orton is about to challenge for the WWE title. So that might be a factor... But i'm not sure how big a factor.

    I'd def say Jericho is a bigger star..

    And I also think anyone that would pull in casuals would probably be Cena or The Rock.. which we know ain't happening.
    Cena or Rock are going to pull a million viewers on night one just out of curiosity alone. But someone like Orton, AJ Styles who has had the WWE Machine pushing him as the best on the planet for the past few years, Big Show, Bray Wyatt, Dean Ambrose, these are all guys who have gained a sizeable enough fanbase (Randy Orton has more Twitter followers than AWE, Cody and the Bucks combined for example) through their WWE exposure that if they can get the word out, will have people follow them.

    Where TNA failed with the WWE guys was that they were immediately rocketed to the top at the expense of their own talent and the rest of the card was often in such shambles that there was no reason to keep watching. These guys would bring in viewers on their name alone, but it's up to the company to make those viewers stick around.

  6. #86
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I guess the question then becomes how much of the casual audience started watching after Jericho left for the first time in 2005, and what percentage has been watching back into Attitude.

    I suppose that's at the crux of the issue for me - how does a top star in a fairly weak business period match up to a second-tier star in a huge boom?

    It strikes me that more people would know the latter, but knowing isn't enough, it's giving a shit about what they might be doing, which is where it all gets trickier to be sure about anything.

    Maybe the other question is how many people have to follow a wrestler to make it worthwhile? If 99% of their followers desert them the second they leave WWE, then their value obviously wouldn't be as high as it appeared, so much much of their following has to be be 'hard support'?

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  7. #87
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    Worth remembering putting Orton on top of WWE brands has typically seen interest nosedive. I recall him doing pretty low numbers when they tried to get him to carry Smackdown in the earlier part of the decade, and I wasn't under the impression he did much better after winning the title at Wrestlemania a couple years back. And after that he was basically demoted from the main event, what was his last top level program? The Jinder stuff from 2 years ago?

    The average person on the street doesn't know Orton, and they don't know Jericho. The only name that qualifies by that criteria is Cena, and that's not happening. If we're just talking WWE casual fans, I find it tough to believe there's a large number that knows Orton but doesn't know Jericho, he was around in 2017 and the List stuff was more over than anything Orton's done since he was punting McMahons. I could be wrong but I just don't think Orton is gonna be their ticket to top level name recognition. WWE tried to get him to that level for close to 20 years but they couldn't make it happen, and I don't think it'll happen now.

  8. #88
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    I think the casual WWE fan isn't looking for an alternative so you're really talking about Orton fans wanting to follow his career.. Its a short term gain at best in my opinion. Maybe it adds some credibility and buzz seeing that if AEW brought in someone like Orton, then obviously not doing this on the cheap. Jericho is one thing, throwing money around to other top WWE guys is another.

    I just prefer it be AJ if it was anyone.

  9. #89
    If you’re going to obscenely overpay for someone, make it Lesnar not Orton. He’s that top rare top level star and will gladly take money.

  10. #90
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    I see that side, but Brock is commanding so much money, he has to draw and I don't know if he really does in 2019. Shows he's been on have been flat attendence wise, he doesn't spike ratings when he's on Raw. My thinking with Orton is if he goes to AEW, it would be for more money but not Brock type money...

    Just saying Brock might want too much money to risk it..

  11. #91
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    Might the answer here - and I'm not saying this expecting anything good, mind - be Batista?

    Breaking out into films as Drax, popular enough that WWE fans might hold an interest. Seems to have a pretty fluctuating relationship with WWE right now.

    Thing is, if AEW doesn't get an Orton level of name, they're essentially only building a rival to NXT, and not Raw and Smackdown.

  12. #92
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    You guys are really underestimating Jericho I think. That's not to say grabbing either Orton, Batista or Lesnar wouldn't be a huge move, but other than Batista (who seems to want to just wrestle Triple H and disappear forever afterwards) those guys have their own flaws. As mizfan pointed out, Randy Orton was a top guy several times during better days than this and never drew well (I would argue booking him poorly for a long time helped contribute there, but either way it doesn't change that his time as top face or top heel runs were largely non draws), while Brock isn't the same draw he was just a few years ago. Jericho has his flaws as well (at his peak he was never Brock or Batista), but he's a name almost every wrestling fan, hardcore, casual or lapsed, recognizes and he's popular with the AEW crowd in a way some of these other guys (especially Orton) won't be (and you don't want to alienate your core audience, especially off the bat). He's not the long term solution, but for now I think he'll do just fine serving as a window in for other fans. Certainly if you can get one of those other guys, go for it. But I don't think it's necessary like some claim. There's an excellent chance AEW is going to wind up on TNT or TBS (which is in just as many homes as the USA Network) for good money, and that alone will give them exposure Impact and even NXT don't have.


  13. #93
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    Clearly, Cult, the answer is the Chairman of WCW.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by comfortablynumb View Post
    If you’re going to obscenely overpay for someone, make it Lesnar not Orton. He’s that top rare top level star and will gladly take money.
    Quote Originally Posted by LK3185 View Post
    I see that side, but Brock is commanding so much money, he has to draw and I don't know if he really does in 2019. Shows he's been on have been flat attendence wise, he doesn't spike ratings when he's on Raw. My thinking with Orton is if he goes to AEW, it would be for more money but not Brock type money...

    Just saying Brock might want too much money to risk it..
    If AEW was to sign Brock, then one of the conditions has to be that he actually wrestles and does not just have each match be Suplex City. Let him use the suplexes obviously, but not only suplexes.

    Imagine a match between Lesnar and Kenny Omega....

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cult Icon View Post
    As mizfan pointed out, Randy Orton was a top guy several times during better days than this and never drew well (I would argue booking him poorly for a long time helped contribute there, but either way it doesn't change that his time as top face or top heel runs were largely non draws),
    Keeping in mind though, Orton's draw at its dirt worst was still better than anything Impact or ROH were/are doing.

    While Brock isn't the same draw he was just a few years ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by LK3185 View Post
    I see that side, but Brock is commanding so much money, he has to draw and I don't know if he really does in 2019. Shows he's been on have been flat attendence wise, he doesn't spike ratings when he's on Raw. My thinking with Orton is if he goes to AEW, it would be for more money but not Brock type money...

    Just saying Brock might want too much money to risk it..
    These are basically the same thing.

    It's all about perspective. Brock might not by putting 20k people into the Staples Center on his own (though, I'd argue with the right opponent and promotion he would), but if you're running monthly TV tapings, Brock (and I believe Orton, too) is the guy that's going to make sure you're putting 3,000 people into every taping. They are guys that are going to help draw eyeballs to your television product. Again, Brock moreso than Orton, but I would believe that Orton is good for 50k a week at least.

    There's an excellent chance AEW is going to wind up on TNT or TBS (which is in just as many homes as the USA Network) for good money, and that alone will give them exposure Impact and even NXT don't have.
    But this is why a name that people will tune in for is so important. Maybe Jericho is that guy and I'm off base. But while he helped New Japan's US numbers, it's not like he suddenly made them a juggernaut in the North American wrestling market.

    It's not "if you build it, they will come". A show on TBS or TNT would be a huge advantage for them, but there needs to be something more than a show, but what's the hook for the 3,000 or so wrestling fans in the city I live in, who don't watch New Japan or ROH or anything else, to tune in? How are you going to get those people into our local arena? Cody, the Bucks and the other indy names are good for probably 750 of them, but is Jericho going to be the other bunch? Because last time WWE came to town Jericho was in the main event and I couldn't give away tickets. I literally stood outside the arena and tried.

  16. #96
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    Batista is one that really intrigues me. If he's willing and able, I could see him being a big difference maker, though my mind is boggling slightly trying to imagine him meshing with, say, Omega or the Young Bucks in the ring. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but it's a trip.

    100% positive more people know who Batista is than anyone mentioned here, including Lesnar. Don't know if that makes him a better draw than Lesnar, but his casual recognition is about as good as it gets thanks to the Marvel films.

  17. #97
    Batista would be an interesting guy to bring in for a quick run.

    I’m not saying they should bring him in, they shouldn’t, but what’s The Undertaker’s deal now? Is he a lifetime legends contract? I see he’s taking non-WWE appearance bookings.

  18. #98
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    Well it's official; Kenny Omega is in and him vs. Chris Jericho looks to be the headliner for Double or Nothing. The other big news from this rally tonight (aside from it being a lot of fun) was the Lucha Brothers attacking the Bucks to set up that match, SCU vs. OWE and Pac vs. Hangman being made official, the Best Friends (Chuck Taylor and Trent Baretta), Sonny Kiss (XO Lishus from Lucha Underground), Kylie Rae and Nyla Ross all signing and the announcement of a new working agreement between AEW and AAA down in Mexico.


  19. #99
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    Looking forward to the show. Sorta of predictable matches but that's not a bad thing. I want to see Pac vs. Omega soon though.

  20. #100
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    Does anyone know what platform the AEW show will be on?

  21. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    Does anyone know what platform the AEW show will be on?
    As in the Las Vegas show? I'd hazard to guess PPV and Fite.TV (internet PPV)

  22. #102
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    Thanks.

  23. #103
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    its not definite but they don't have a TV deal and the first All in show was on PPV... so its a reasonable guess.

  24. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by LK3185 View Post
    Looking forward to the show. Sorta of predictable matches but that's not a bad thing. I want to see Pac vs. Omega soon though.
    The only match announced that I wasn't really into was the Omega-Jericho match. I'm not sure if it's because they already did it or because I was so set on wanting Omega to either wrestle Ibushi or someone new, but I was just left thinking "eh, it's alright" afterwards. If you think about it it's at least understandable why they did it though. The match has never been done on US soil so it will be a draw, there's no reason this match won't at least be really good (the last one was, whether we agree on the rating it got) and it sets up Kenny to go over the biggest mainstream name they have out of the gate, thus establishing him (to some degree) with a new audience as a big deal. So it's an understandable choice for a headliner that I'll enjoy when we get it. I just personally would've gone a different direction.

    The rest of the card looks sick though. SCU vs. CIMA and two partners of CIMA's choosing will be interesting, especially if CIMA brings in Duan Yingnan and Gao Jingjia (two of his best, most exciting pupils). Pac vs. Hangman should be tremendous. And the Bucks vs. Pentagon and Fenix is MONEY! It's also pretty fresh; I know some people are saying it feels like they've wrestled each other frequently but not counting three way tag team matches or six man's, the Bucks vs. the Lucha Brothers have only happened three times. Not only that, those matches were in 2016 and 2017 (so not recent) and were either in PWG (which not everyone watches) or The Crash, which had no streaming at the time. So this is actually a relatively fresh match for a new audience between two of the best tag teams alive. It should be outstanding.


  25. #105
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    Besides PAC though, there's no one really for Omega to wrestle in AEW after they did the Pentagon match. That will change over time but I like putting Omega over Jericho and stamping that Omega is the top guy of the promotion. Once they get TV going and more established, we'll see what they do.

    Basically, i'm more excited about the aftermath of the Las Vegas show than anything else.

  26. #106
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    What about Cody? Is he going to be an active wrestler, or the lead guy behind the curtain? He is still very young at 33, and could be a challenger for the Top Title.

  27. #107
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    I think that match is the best possible, in terms of growing an audience. Jericho draws in people that don't normally watch non-WWE stuff, and Omega should keep them there.

  28. #108
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    AXS was seen on the stream:


    “How great the tremors will be when the judge comes."

  29. #109
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    Everyone is burying the lead here.

    AJA KONG will be at Double or Nothing!!!

  30. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    What about Cody? Is he going to be an active wrestler, or the lead guy behind the curtain? He is still very young at 33, and could be a challenger for the Top Title.
    Cody had a knee injury and an operation this week scheduled I think. He might be ready for the next show but I don't think they want to commit to anything.

    Also, i'm pretty sure he'll still be active wrestling

  31. #111
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    I think Jericho-Omega is smart. For those who haven't seen it, it's a really big deal. For those who have, they will expect and push for these guys to do it here, in AEW, as a main event, in a way it has not yet been done.

    I thought Pac was damn good in his video. What a barbarian of graphic language. I love his disdain for the "elitist" and I left thinking, win or lose, he is going to put Page through some shit at Las Vegas.

    My man, Pentagon, though. How great was that booked. At the night of the handshake, the Bucks PLAYFULLY called Lucha Bros the second best tag team (in a chill moment) and Pentagon was immediately in their faces. He fell back and all seemed OK. But the next time they saw them? Beat down and a package pile driver on the stage. That is how you book Pentagon.

    It was a trip to watch. A true WCW fan can't see the MGM and not get nostalgic. There are some characters who are not my style and some of the constant fan interaction is new to me, but then, in the segments where guys are serious and there is heat, it felt like damn WCW to me.

    A weird night but a good one.

    They did the biggest thing they needed to do: sell tickets.

    The greater storylines will come the closer we get to TV. I am a guy who wants that, too. But the most important thing on these one-off-ish nights is to get tickets sold and to have fans leaving happy. They did the first part last night and I do believe these matches, along with Starrcast II, will take care of the second half.

  32. #112
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    Early report is that Double or Nothing general tickets sold out in 4 minutes. Apparently the pre-sale tickets sold out in 30 minutes the other day. Signs of good things to come, or still too early to tell?

  33. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by meandi View Post
    Early report is that Double or Nothing general tickets sold out in 4 minutes. Apparently the pre-sale tickets sold out in 30 minutes the other day. Signs of good things to come, or still too early to tell?
    Good news for sure. The next step is transforming this event promotion into a TV promotion that can grow its base. We know All Elite can sell out 20 K, probably even 30K if they try before TV but TV and doing a show weekly is why The Khan family got into it. To make money.

  34. #114
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    Hopefully them selling out so fast helps seal the deal on getting a good tv spot.

  35. #115
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    Sounds like good news to me!

  36. #116
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    None of us can forecast the future, so the good news now is good news.

    I think the TV deal is going to happen. The rumors have consistently been October or so. Do they sink or swim on TV? I hope swim. But, regardless, All In was damn good news. Double or Nothing is good news. One run on TV, despite what happens one way or the other, is still more good news.

    I'm speaking to myself as much as anyone, but I feel like it's human nature to quickly take the big news and good news for granted and always think of the bad. The thing that is the threat gets attention.

    But we also just need to sit back at times and let good news be good news.

    It's been nothing but good news so far.

    And that is good news.

  37. #117
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    I'm just saying this is different than the last show because it was just the Elite. I'm sure if they had wanted to and were able to afford it, they could run a show every four months and do well. The Khan family got involved though, so now there's bigger goals. Its great news they sold out but there's nothing wrong to looking to the future or just enjoying the moment of course.. Just wanted to say i wasn't trying to be negative or anything
    Last edited by LK3185; 02-14-2019 at 08:41 AM.

  38. #118
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    I don't know if there's a TV deal done but there's definitely something big brewing in that department. For one, Jericho would not have thrown in with these guys if there was no TV or if they were just gonna wind up on AXS or something like that (and to Mourn's post, AXS is only listed there because they are responsible for helping move tickets to all events under MGM properties. They are not involved with AEW otherwise). Secondly, there are reports that AEW had two TV offers on the table as of two weeks ago and had also met with one potential Network the weekend of February 2nd. Well where were Cody, the Bucks and most of the AEW contingent February 2nd? Atlanta; they flew into Atlanta Friday night for that indie show they appeared on (the one where Pentagon and Fenix all but joined them) and then took in the Super Bowl on Sunday. What media conglomerate just happens to be stationed out of Atlanta? None other than Turner Broadcasting System, the owner of big time cable stations TNT and TBS. No one has come out and talked about it but given reports and where AEW was that weekend, it's pretty clear they were negotiating with Turner to get onto either TNT or TBS, possibly both.

    As for an agreement and when it will be announced, I think everyone needs to remember that TV stuff is a complicated process. My guess is AEW and whoever they're negotiating with (TNT, TBS, some other network out there) were waiting to see how Double or Nothing sold. Now that we've seen it sell out so quickly (proving there is some sort of demand) they'll go back to the table and get something hammered out quickly. Even then though I'm not sure when we'll hear about it, as Networks love to save announcements for new shows till a certain time (mostly in the Spring). I doubt a deal is done as of now but for all we know it could be and whoever the Network is just wants to wait until then before making an announcement, especially since any AEW likely isn't coming to the fall. Either way I don't think TV is a concern. They're clearly negotiating with some one big and talent like Jericho wouldn't be there if they weren't confident. It's just a matter of how far along in the process they are and when the Network they sign with will want to make it public.


  39. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by LK3185 View Post
    I'm just saying this is different than the last show because it was just the Elite. I'm sure if they had wanted to and were able to afford it, they could run a show every four months and do well. The Khan family got involved though, so now there's bigger goals. Its great news they sold out but there's nothing wrong to looking to the future or just enjoying the moment of course.. Just wanted to say i wasn't trying to be negative or anything
    I'm definitely not knocking your take. Any of us that are excited about this are bound to have a range of emotions/reactions/wonders/worries. I am usually the realist-to-pessimist in life, but, for whatever reason, I keep feeling good about this.

    I do have a question for Cult, or anyone else. How much do we believe the reports of monthly shows until potential TV in October that came out recently? Would you all advise this or pace it out more? My worry would be the need to have good attendance for each. Do you throw all the potential matches we can look forward to together before TV even happens? I don't know. I liked the idea of DoN, a Jacksonville show, and one before TV launch. What are the pros/cons of doing one monthly until TV to you all?

  40. #120
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    That report was 100% false. No other place reported that besides Wrestle Talk (which is an iffy source of info to begin with) and it was revealed that the place they said AEW was using in England was booked throughout August, the month that show was supposed to take place. Unless something has changed the plan still appears to be Double or Nothing Memorial Day weekend, the Jacksonville show (possibly in July) and All In II (likely to be called All Out) the first weekend of September. Honestly that's what I would do myself, with a few more of these rallies they've done thrown in. I don't know how many in these parts have checked them out but, aside from technical difficulties for the Jacksonville rally, I found both to be a lot of fun and successful in setting up exciting matches. I'd keep doing one a month to roll out talent/announce matches, run an angle or two and use Being the Elite otherwise to build to the shows.


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