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  1. #321
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    Of course they could. if you don't learn from mistakes, you're doomed to repeat them. Like I said, they have alot of great talent that's also in some sort of booking pow wow. They say Tony Khan has final say... Well he better exert his power on some issues or they could end up like all those other promotions. AEW has the best chance of any in 20 years to succeed and I don't want to see them squander it either.

  2. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEN15v2 View Post
    To you! Again, you're only thinking about your taste. I'd say for my taste it was 50/50. And there will be more people who aren't buying in (pun intended) due to these limitations. And if AEW's reaction is like yours, "we can improve, but let's stick with it because some online people mark out" then that's a huge concern. It's a very short sighted business plan to target fans that are already suckling at the AEW teat.
    I didn't realize how many fans online were negative towards AEW. I really expected everyone to be fawning over it. But instead, there are a lot of people who are the target demographic and still aren't enjoying it. I also understand a lot are just WWE only fans who essentially troll AEW fans, just like there are vice versa. But there are quite a few things AEW has missed the mark on, and in ways I didn't expect. The comedy is a big example.
    I would agree with your 50/50 thoughts.

    Kenny and the Bucks seem like every super clever indy guy that I know, if nobody ever told them their idea was shit.

    I laughed hard when they "ran out of money" and the models had to be swapped out with mannequins. But it would have been fine to end it there. I didn't need the documentary spoof, or Kenny carrying musical equipment for Blink 182 only for them to pull out.

    I understand that they're still finding their way, but they're doing it on international TV with a massive budget. They came up with a sort of half assed funny idea and beat it to death. If WWE had done these exact same skits, written and carried out the exact same way with comedy under card guys, this week on Raw they would have been roasted.

    Meanwhile, Cody is booking his shit like Dusty and low and behold there aren't any spoof documentaries.

  3. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Farrell View Post
    They came up with a sort of half assed funny idea and beat it to death. If WWE had done these exact same skits, written and carried out the exact same way with comedy under card guys, this week on Raw they would have been roasted.
    This, so this. I think that's the unreasonable part that upsets me. AEW nuthuggers fawning over the same stuff they crapped all over when Vince booked it.


    And to add what I posted about those other promotions losing their hype and goodwill, a big part of it was how WWE evolved. When these companies grabbed attention, WWE took the best parts and incorporated it into their format. The biggest example is how ROH showcased a higher work rate, and that's when WWE started accepting more of those guys, like Punk, Bryan, Rollins... Maybe the even bigger example is a certain other Philadelphia promotion that was run by someone associated with WWE at this time.

    So AEW will likely succeed as I mentioned, but WWE seems to already be using parts of their playbook. Credit to ECW, TNA, ROH, and AEW for pointing out the things lacking from Vince's show. But one of Vince's strengths is cherry picking ideas from elsewhere to re-invent WWE, and keeping these other promotions off the radar.

    For the record, I don't think AEW will be irrelevant any time soon. But it does feel like they are playing to a certain fanbase who has often been excited for an alternative, and then got sick of said alternative.

  4. #324
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    ^that points to the clashing visions.. Also, I can understand doing that Video game show like Kenny had done last year, all those jokes make sense... He ran the show. But like you said Coach, this isn't just BTE anymore. Really, Tony Khan has to put his stamp on the TV product because the BTE type stuff... might work for some but also some things don't work at all.

    I understood back at ALL in that Joey Ryan and Penis druids were a culmination of a story from BTE and it worked for most of the crowd there.. they loved it. Flash forward, Joey Ryan is no where to be seen (which is a good thing) but also some of the BTE bits are falling flat like the Librarians shit. The people in charge have to recognize that and adjust and I think the AEW supporters believe they will.

  5. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by LK3185 View Post
    The people in charge have to recognize that and adjust and I think the AEW supporters believe they will.
    I believe they will. They've been really smart getting to this point, so they should be just as smart to recognize how they need to improve certain things to reach the numbers they are aiming for. There's nothing wrong catering to a small demographic of rabid fans, but I am not confident that this demo will get the numbers TNT is expecting.

  6. #326
    Have you guys got it all figured out, yet? Once all your ideas are together, I want a report on Khan's desk.
    Last edited by Benjamin Button; 2 Weeks Ago at 11:35 AM.

  7. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin Button View Post
    Have you guys got it all figured out, yet? Once all your ideas are together, I want a report on Khan's desk.
    Which EVP are you? #16874 or #16875?

  8. #328
    Nah, its funny because I feel like I was more sour after DON than this one, because starting with that be a charicter of yourself battle royal put me in a nasty mood right away

    On this card, i thought the triple threat tag match was a better start. So at least the bad stuff was sandwhiched in. I think you will always find things you dislike on a show...I hate some of this stuff, but I'd rather watch a showwith some things I hate and some things I love than feel lukewarm the entire time. Not saying WWE creates that experience for all fans. Clearly, people still love it.

    I thought the announcing team was better on fyter fest than DON...mainly, Jim Ross got more comfortable. Ioved Cody and Darby's match...thought the time limit draw was the right punctuation on the match. Loved. MJF...enjoyed a themed show.
    Last edited by Benjamin Button; 2 Weeks Ago at 11:59 AM.

  9. #329
    Puerto Rican dude living in Japan Degenerate's Avatar
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    There was a new match for the Fight For The Fallen pre-show announced a few hours ago, a six-man tag of Darby Allin / Jimmy Havoc / Joey Janela vs. MJF / Sammy Guevara / Shawn Spears. Allin, Havoc, and Janela is going to be interesting to see how their crazy styles mesh as a team. I'm guessing the main story of this match is how MJF and Shawn Spears get along after the attack on Cody.

    Hopefully this match and maybe another solid bout, along with removing any stupid skits, helps the pre-show be a much better lead-in to the main program.

  10. #330
    Why would MJF and Spears be on a team together?

  11. #331
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    My guess is to have some sort of storyline leading into the match instead of having it be a completely cold, thrown-together bout. Not sure what else the logic would be there. Maybe there will be some more vignettes posted on one of their YouTube channels before the show.

  12. #332
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    MJF has already voiced his disgust about it on Twitter so it's very clearly going to lead to one of them screwing the other over. My guess is Spears will be the one betraying MJF in order to further set up him and Cody for Chicago, with another angle between him and Cody likely for the main show.


  13. #333
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    Yeah, I figured it was pretty clear why things were the way that they were.

    What are peoples thoughts on the team of Allin, Janela and Havoc? Isn't Allin supposed to be a babyface while the others are heels?

    I thought that Cody's whole thing was that the babyface/heel divide was antiquated and that he didn't want to do it. If that's the case, I think they might have issue with getting anyone truly over. I'm not a fan of that style of booking, I know JR isn't, so I hope something gets said to someone.

    I hope that this isn't a bunch of guys who grew up watching the Attitude Era trying to recreate the Attitude Era.

  14. #334
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    Janela and Havoc aren't really heels. I mean, I think its part of the case that they don't have defined roles yet for alot of the characters. Janela had a match with Moxley but it wasn't treated like he was bad guy in it. Just a hardcore guy wanting a fight.

    Same with Havoc. I think the characters not having strict defined roles can work if you establish a character's motivations pretty well.. otherwise it just becomes muddled.

    Look at what they did with the Brandi vid at the last Road to fight for the fallen. They made her human and sympathetic by cutting past the bs and getting to her motivation.

  15. #335
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    I thought Janela and Havoc were nominally babyfaces, at least, since Janela didn't do anything particularly heelish against Moxley and Havoc came out to punch MJF when he insulted Bret Hart. Time will tell though.

    For my 2 cents I enjoyed Fyter Fest quite a bit, with the exception of some of the pre-show stuff.

    Gotta update the REAL TOP 10 soon!

  16. #336
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    Both for the moment are babyfaces. Janela didn't do anything heelish against Moxley nor vice versa; it was nominally a babyface vs. babyface match that AEW wanted to do as the big match for Fyter Fest (you can argue they maybe should've saved it for later). Jimmy Havoc is definitely a face as he attacked MJF after the Bret Hart segment at Double or Nothing.

    Right now AEW is going with the same strategy New Japan does. There are definitely heels and faces in New Japan but depending on the match up you'll some time see the lines blur. Okada and Tanahashi are faces all the time, but they'll work heel if they're facing an underdog, another popular babyface who is more over in said city or a legend like Yuji Nagata or Satoshi Kojima. Without TV AEW is taking the same approach. Cody is a face, but he worked the Dustin and Darby match heel, which was the right call in each instance as Dustin was never going to be booed in that match while the best way to establish Darby was to have him fight back after taking a beating. Other guys have similarly blurred the lines. I think when it's every week you'll see more lines drawn into the sand, but for now this is the approach. In some instances I think it always will be. AEW has made it clear fans will not be told who they can and can't cheer for, so I think you'll see this approach through the majority of their run, however long it is.


  17. #337
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    My updated top 10 for the singles division, going into Fight For The Fallen!

    10. Tommy Dreamer (eliminated Sonny Kiss and Orange Cassidy in the Casino Battle Royal)
    9. Jungle Boy (eliminated Ace Romero in the Casino Battle Royal, non-pinfall loss in a 4way)
    8. MJF (eliminated Brandon Cutler, Dustin Thomas, and Glacier in the Casino Battle Royal, non-pinfall loss in a 4way)
    7. Luchasaurus (eliminated Private Party, Jimmy Havoc, and Joey Janela in the Casino Battle Royal)
    6. Kip Sabian (defeated Sammy Guevara in a singles match)
    5. Kenny Omega (pinned Laredo Kid to win a 6man tag)
    4. Cody Rhodes (defeated Dustin Rhodes in a singles match, time limit draw with Darby Allin in a singles match)
    3. CIMA (defeated Christopher Daniels in a singles match)
    2. Hangman Page (won the Casino Battle Royale, pinned Jimmy Havoc in a 4way)
    1. Chris Jericho (defeated Kenny Omega)

    Keeping Jericho at #1 because a win over Omega feels bigger than either of Page's accomplishments so far. Daniels has come off like a relatively important guy, whereas Dustin is old even if the match was great and Cody couldn't beat Allin, so 3 and 4 felt right. Normally I'd prioritize a singles match over a six man tag win, but since Sammy Guevara doesn't have much standing and the six man was a main event level match, it seems right to put Kenny at 5. Curious to see what develops at FFTF!

  18. #338
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    Interesting concept, Mizfan. One of my fave parts of the Apter mags as a teen were the rankings. I tried to incorporate them into my old blogs from time to time as well, I think. I'm not sure it really works with only 2 shows to go off of, but you've got to start somewhere. And if AEW stays on track with wins/losses mattering, a ranking system will go a long way.


    Outside of rankings, the top draw of AEW for me has been the Joshi stuff. I don't know if the AEW women's division will become better than WWE's as the talent pool is still shallow, but AEW have a major leg up by booking more international female talent, as Japan's women's wrestling has been on a "revolution" for decades, so they'll have the experience that the US talent pool just doesn't have at all, in any brand/promotion. Kenny's familiarity with that scene is a huge bonus as well.
    Even if it's not for my taste, AEW likely should have their own version of an X division. I can't stand the choreographed garbage the Bucks do, and it seems half of the matches from the 2 existing AEW shows it will be a focus, so they should own it as best as possible. I guess you can't really create a division like that, but AEW has shown a good variety or match types overall, so separating that style from the Cody/classic style, and then a Joshi/women's division... AEW will have a great balance of wrestling to captivate a larger demographic than just the hardcore online fans.


    Here's a question that kind of goes for every promotion ever, but I think AEW is where it can actually have a purpose: what divisions/titles can a mainstream english based wrestling company have that would be new? I understand how midcard titles work, but there's such a strong lack of logic for them existing in the same division as the top title. Why should I care about the US/IC title if I can go after the WWE/Universal title? I think the best midcard titles are when they are separate divisions. Such as the hardcore title in the Attitude Era, or the TV title in WCW which had the time limit enforced strongly, along with regular defenses. Or even the Pure Title in ROH. That's why I had high hopes for the Grand Championship in Impact when it was released, as flawed as it was.

    Any ideas on midcard titles with a purpose that's different than the main title?

  19. #339
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    I'm a big fan of the old TV title. I think there are guys on the roster who could do amazing things with it. MJF definitely comes to mind.

  20. #340
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    I don't recall where I heard this but there was something recently where it was indicated that there may not be any midcard titles. It would just be an AEW World Championship, an AEW Women's World Championship, the Tag Team Championships and a Women's Tag Team Championships (though that one was mentioned as being a little further down the road compared to the others). Perhaps I'm mistaken though. Either way I wouldn't expect another singles title for either division beyond a TV title. I believe Cody has mentioned that he thought both WWE and New Japan suffered from having too many championships and that they'd try to keep the number of those they had down.


  21. #341
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    Well, they certainly aren't moving away from goofy or comedic preshow matches, as they booked the male librarian Peter Avalon VS The gay wrestler that Cornette got in trouble for calling a transvestite, Sonny Kiss.

    I'm really confused about what the goal is here.

  22. #342
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    The build for the Bucks and Rhodes Brothers plus Brandi and Allie has been really good.

  23. #343
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    The goal of that match will be to get Sonny Kiss over. That's an admirable goal; Sonny Kiss, despite his flamboyance, is a super talented performer and not in a comedic style. He was a prominent performer in Lucha Underground's 4th season and was very good, most notably in a No Mas match with Jack Evans that was played quite straight. He's not the problem. The problem is the Librarian gimmick being involved in this. I don't have an answer for that. The Bucks and Leva Bates were goofing off on the gimmick on the latest Being the Elite which made me think they were going to repackage it or at least steer away from it. Perhaps there's a plan here and Peter Avalon, without the gimmick, is a talented guy, but my first reaction to seeing this match was that the people turned off by this gimmick would immediately give up on this match, which in turn does Sonny Kiss no favors. A shame because like I said, he's a really good talent.


  24. #344
    Super Moderator Team Farrell's Avatar
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    I'm going to play the role of Cornette here for a moment.

    Are they going to give some explanation to Sonny Kiss this time? Why he dresses and acts like he does beyond the assumption a lot of people are going to have that he's a caricature of a gay guy or ripping off Goldust? I don't know who he is. I wasn't watching Lucha Underground. Does he consider himself to be an Exotico, or is he just flamboyant and expressing himself? A little explanation would go a long way. Maybe point out that for a gay black man to behave as flamboyantly as he does, he must be one tough son of a bitch. My fear is that AEW won't have an interest in doing that because they consider themselves so "evolved" and demand that their fans be too, that they're just going to want everyone watching to accept that this just is the way that it is which I don't know if it will fly with "Middle America" as it were.

    Actually, I wouldn't mind one of those vignettes like they did with Darby Allin for Sonny Kiss.

    Because to be completely honest, sometimes AEW feels like a club that's hard to get in to. You have to know who some of these people are going in, or do research of your own, and I (and I will assume the general public) am not interested in doing that.

    JR does a pretty good job when he's on the call in filling in the blanks. Letting me know more about the Joshi wrestlers at FF (that's not a scene I follow at all, nor am I interested in starting) was helpful. Sometimes I find though that Excalibur and whomever he's paired with on the pre-show seem to assume that everyone watching already knows who everyone is and what their history is.

  25. #345
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    Young Bucks started the first BTE after the criticism of the comedy and the library gimmicks by having a notebook for "future plans" for AEW and one of the items said, "More comedy?" Then they had the librarian come in and talk about how over her gimmick is. The YB reaction to anything negative is to acknowledge in a joking manner and keep on moving. This is frustrating for me as, not only do I not enjoy the comedy, it also keeps the buy in from creating a big show vibe and building into the actual show. It could be a good buy in because, as mentioned, there are talented people behind some of the bullshit gimmicks/comedy, but I think I'm going to make like Jim Ross and skip the buy in this time. If they want me back for all of it, they can earn their way back.

  26. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Farrell View Post
    I'm going to play the role of Cornette here for a moment.

    Are they going to give some explanation to Sonny Kiss this time? Why he dresses and acts like he does beyond the assumption a lot of people are going to have that he's a caricature of a gay guy or ripping off Goldust? I don't know who he is. I wasn't watching Lucha Underground. Does he consider himself to be an Exotico, or is he just flamboyant and expressing himself? A little explanation would go a long way. Maybe point out that for a gay black man to behave as flamboyantly as he does, he must be one tough son of a bitch. My fear is that AEW won't have an interest in doing that because they consider themselves so "evolved" and demand that their fans be too, that they're just going to want everyone watching to accept that this just is the way that it is which I don't know if it will fly with "Middle America" as it were.

    Actually, I wouldn't mind one of those vignettes like they did with Darby Allin for Sonny Kiss.

    Because to be completely honest, sometimes AEW feels like a club that's hard to get in to. You have to know who some of these people are going in, or do research of your own, and I (and I will assume the general public) am not interested in doing that..

    Except you didn't even have to do research because AEW already did a video where Sonny talks about himself all the way back in March for one of the Road to Double or Nothing shows, a video they also turned into its own separate piece on the YouTube page. It's not as lengthy or as Darby's video but it's a nice minute and a half of Sonny explaining how he got into the business, who he is and what is goal is in regards to wrestling and being a role model for the LGBT community.





    I'd suggest to anyone who has similar complaints as Coach taking ten minutes out of the day to watch that Road to... series of videos as, unlike Being the Elite, they're completely played straight and have played a big part in filling in the blanks people want filled in. I think the clear disconnect is people haven't watched these and thus think AEW hasn't been filling in certain blanks, when they have.


  27. #347
    My problem with Kiss, in this environment, is his offense. he's dancing more then wrestling, and he's hitting me with his ass.

    Now, if they explained he was like an exotico, it would help define the comedy in what he's doing. I think Lucha Underground had an advantage with him, because they'd introduced exoticos, already. But even there, I was marginally impressed with his match with Evans; because, the entire thing was like he was addressing his bully, but the story didnt show him being bullied so much.

    If a straight person wrestled like Kiss, would it be explained?

    I dont care that he's effeminate. Let me know why he's a threat. Johnny B. Badd was effeminate but had a boxing background. Sonny Kiss is effeminate with a dancing background.

  28. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Farrell View Post
    Because to be completely honest, sometimes AEW feels like a club that's hard to get in to. You have to know who some of these people are going in, or do research of your own, and I (and I will assume the general public) am not interested in doing that.

    JR does a pretty good job when he's on the call in filling in the blanks. Letting me know more about the Joshi wrestlers at FF (that's not a scene I follow at all, nor am I interested in starting) was helpful. Sometimes I find though that Excalibur and whomever he's paired with on the pre-show seem to assume that everyone watching already knows who everyone is and what their history is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cult Icon View Post
    I'd suggest to anyone who has similar complaints as Coach taking ten minutes out of the day to watch that Road to... series of videos as, unlike Being the Elite, they're completely played straight and have played a big part in filling in the blanks people want filled in. I think the clear disconnect is people haven't watched these and thus think AEW hasn't been filling in certain blanks, when they have.
    Here's the problem. If AEW is apparently going after lapsed wrestling fans, then they are an older generation. I doubt I'm the only one who isn't interested in watching youtube videos. I might be in the minority, but at 37 and very tech savvy, I still don't like watching youtube videos. For anything.

    That said, I do feel this is where AEW TV will help. Putting all this info in the right spot (in my opinion). It'll be a challenge for AEW until October, but that does mean there will be a disconnect, and they need to improve on that. I don't need a 10 minute video before Sonny's entrance to explain everything, but recap it quickly with the commentary team. This has been a huge weak point in commentary, and goes with the idea that AEW is a club that isn't for everyone.

  29. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic View Post
    Young Bucks started the first BTE after the criticism of the comedy and the library gimmicks by having a notebook for "future plans" for AEW and one of the items said, "More comedy?" Then they had the librarian come in and talk about how over her gimmick is. The YB reaction to anything negative is to acknowledge in a joking manner and keep on moving. This is frustrating for me as, not only do I not enjoy the comedy, it also keeps the buy in from creating a big show vibe and building into the actual show. It could be a good buy in because, as mentioned, there are talented people behind some of the bullshit gimmicks/comedy, but I think I'm going to make like Jim Ross and skip the buy in this time. If they want me back for all of it, they can earn their way back.
    This is why the Librarians thing is such a big problem. I do disagree that AEW is just going to "keep on moving" with this gimmick, as I interpreted the whole thing to be them jokingly acknowledging that the gimmick had bombed and that there will be changes. But it doesn't matter what the intent is. The only thing that matters is that the gimmick has completely flatlined, and that no matter how good Peter Avalon or Leva Bates (as a character, not a wrestler) are when people now see them booked, they'll immediately think it will involve some shitty comedy and check out. That's a far bigger problem than worrying if AEW has addressed Sonny Kiss' character (they have) or if his ring style has been explained properly (which I'm not sure how it could be in the AEW environment as he's only had one match, a match we all agree was lacking). They should've just kept the Librarian arc on Being the Elite, changed it there (if they do indeed plan on changing it) or just scrapped it entirely. Either way they should've gone with something else on the pre-show; instead they'll role it back and now that will be the topic of discussion for a show that, otherwise, looks to be really strong outside of a Brandi Rhodes-Allie match that quite honestly shouldn't have been on this show either.


  30. #350
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    I do think putting vignettes like that Sonny Kiss one on the show itself would help a lot (or yes, on TV when it comes). Something to break up the matches a little would be a good thing in general, at least for me, as it's been pretty nonstop on the first two shows.

  31. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cult Icon View Post
    Except you didn't even have to do research because AEW already did a video where Sonny talks about himself all the way back in March for one of the Road to Double or Nothing shows, a video they also turned into its own separate piece on the YouTube page. It's not as lengthy or as Darby's video but it's a nice minute and a half of Sonny explaining how he got into the business, who he is and what is goal is in regards to wrestling and being a role model for the LGBT community.





    I'd suggest to anyone who has similar complaints as Coach taking ten minutes out of the day to watch that Road to... series of videos as, unlike Being the Elite, they're completely played straight and have played a big part in filling in the blanks people want filled in. I think the clear disconnect is people haven't watched these and thus think AEW hasn't been filling in certain blanks, when they have.
    See, that's a great 100 seconds of who Sonny Kiss is. One a one hour Buy In show, why couldn't they air that? Combine that with a little more info from Excalibur and you're all set.

    I get that they don't have a weekly TV show yet. But then it's their job to explain things and not assume that everyone who's watching that Buy In is watching the Road to shows. Their Buy In (just the one on YouTube) has between two and a half and four times more viewers than their Road to episodes. That means at least half of the Buy In viewers aren't watching Road to and don't know what's happening on it.

  32. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Farrell View Post
    I get that they don't have a weekly TV show yet. But then it's their job to explain things and not assume that everyone who's watching that Buy In is watching the Road to shows. Their Buy In (just the one on YouTube) has between two and a half and four times more viewers than their Road to episodes. That means at least half of the Buy In viewers aren't watching Road to and don't know what's happening on it.
    A common complaint against WWE is the amount of recaps and replays they get, so it's possible AEW is going the complete opposite route by not repeating stuff like what's on their youtube videos. I think it's a mistake, but I can understand their logic in trying it. I'm also forcing patience until their TV show to judge completely. It's a new company, with a leadership team very inexperienced at this sort of role, and they need to keep momentum going during these "In Your House" type PPVs (not a knock by the way, I've long since suggested WWE do something very similar). I don't expect their shows to be perfect, and I'll tune into everything they air on TV/PPV (but not youtube) until October. I just hope there is some note taking and learning along the way. In terms of comedy and wrestler backgrounds, it's a huge weakness so far for AEW.

  33. #353
    The problem I had with the aew buy in was that I really keep my wrestling fandom on the downlow. But I had in laws over who were curious because Jim Ross was on it and interested in WWE talent. I'd seen the youtube videos and knew what was up, but they didnt....I was really embarrassed of the shanagins and the librarians...And when the dark order appeared at double or nothing, in a weird way I felt embarrassed that they and even JR had seen it.

    But when I watched the fyter fest one, I was aloof to it becausec I was alone and knew better stuff was coming.
    Last edited by Benjamin Button; 1 Week Ago at 12:52 PM.

  34. #354
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    The thing that frustrates me about the Dark Order is I feel like a lot of the right pieces are already in place, but they keep going back to the cheesy blackout teleportation gimmick. Ditch that and you've solved a good chunk of the problem, I think they have a good aesthetic and I'm confident they'll impress in the ring but they're in danger of poisoning the well by leaning too heavily on that kind of stuff.

  35. #355
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    I didn't realize the Dark Order stuff was such a sour note for AEW fans. I thought it was good stuff. I'm not much for Undertaker's entrance and gimmicky stuff, but there's no denying how popular it is. I see Dark Order stuff to be the same so far. The one flaw I had with that was how long the Fyter Fest face-off was before they disappeared. It seemed like everyone was standing staring at each other for too long... and then they were gone.

  36. #356
    They looked pretty good in their promo... I agree the lights out gimmick for unestablished wrestlers makes them look cheap...i think the bucks think the campy humor will translate from their show, but hopefully they see its not working.

    I also question having them target best friends....I like best friends as wrestlers but their gimmick is kind of flat, right now..Just want to hug each other and everybody else....I dont think they're susceptible to mind games.

    Maybe, a more intense team or a more virtuous team would be a better target.

    Edit: This is not to say AEW wont use this opportunity to bring out a deeper side of Best Friends. Only time will tell.
    Last edited by Benjamin Button; 1 Week Ago at 02:11 PM.

  37. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEN15v2 View Post
    I didn't realize the Dark Order stuff was such a sour note for AEW fans. I thought it was good stuff. I'm not much for Undertaker's entrance and gimmicky stuff, but there's no denying how popular it is. I see Dark Order stuff to be the same so far. The one flaw I had with that was how long the Fyter Fest face-off was before they disappeared. It seemed like everyone was standing staring at each other for too long... and then they were gone.
    As best I can tell it hasn't been a sour note for most fans, especially after that video shown on Being the Elite that introduced them proper. The only issue with The Dark Order was that they were dropped in cold at Double or Nothing; when you turn the lights out like that people generally expect a big surprise when they come back on and instead they got Uno and Stu, who were popular guys with the audience for a long time but had disappeared for years in the States due to visa issues. They got a much better reception at Fyter Fest (though I did think they went slightly too long before revealing they weren't there) and I expect they'll be completely over by the time Fight for the Fallen is over. Evil Uno and Stu Grayson are really strong separately but together they're excellent; last year I saw them have a match with the Bucks where they came in cold and by the end were getting a standing ovation. They know how to get over really fast and will again unless they just shit the bed tomorrow.


  38. #358
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    My take at Fyter Fest is the crowd liked the promo but didn't like the blackout bit. That's why I'm thinking leaving that stuff out might work better, or at least using it more sparingly.

    It was one of three main complaints I heard coming out of Fyter Fest, though it was a distant third to the Nakazawa/Jebailey and Librarian stuff that was much more widely panned.

  39. #359
    Puerto Rican dude living in Japan Degenerate's Avatar
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    My issue with guys like Dark Order is that I have no idea who they are or why I should care about them at this point. I don't follow indy wrestling, and while I had heard the name of Super Smash Bros. in wrestling, I never saw them in action or know what they're capable of. Having them come out the way they did at Double or Nothing as well as Fyter Fest, it just left me wondering why they were given such an entrance. They haven't shown me anything yet that makes me want to care about them, even with their promos. And to be honest, they don't look like anything special either. That very well may change in the future once they actually wrestle and have more than their current blackout thing, but right now I have no clue about them.

    I don't know how much of the current AEW audience is like me - big wrestling fan, doesn't know much from the independent scene outside of bigger names. I'm guessing there's a sizable portion like me who's interested in seeing these guys, but maybe we're more conditioned to have a little something to latch on to before they're presented inside the ring. That's why I really dig the YouTube videos that are on AEW and Cody's channels presenting Darby Allin and Sonny Kiss. Those short videos gave me something to look forward to. The Buy In pre-shows are a perfect place to show one or two of these, and actually help people get into the main show. It still baffles me why they choose to do the pre-show things they've done so far, but again it's early in their history so they'll probably adjust things moving forward.

  40. #360
    I’ve seen Sonny Kiss have decent matches in LU but it seemed like he was working in slow motion today. Strikes are Shane McMahon bad.

    I like the issues between Spears and MJF popping up in this 3-on-3. Not a fan of the face team in this match.

    Solid main show all around as far as the wrestling goes. Push Luchasaurus to the moon.
    Last edited by comfortablynumb; 1 Week Ago at 11:57 PM.

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