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  1. #561
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    The tag division is the source of most of the pushback I've seen this week, so however you go about it, there's got to be some value in doing something to address it.

    It strikes me that the best solution is stopping people fucking about and if they insist, count them out... but that won't surprise anyone.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  2. #562
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    if they were to do that, then it would stop all together.. its not like the tag matches are going rogue from the designed purpose. Which is why I'm not sure they will address it unless the pushback is from people they would listen to.

  3. #563
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    Yeah, I only said it was the best solution - not that I thought it had any chance of happening! If I had to bet I don't think they'll deal with it at all, nevermind in a satisfying way.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  4. #564
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    I would think that JR bringing it up on commentary (the lack of pinfalls too) he has voiced that opinion backstage as well. At the very least, they know about it and I would address it some way but we'll see. My feeling is the way the show comes off, it feels like Cody is doing his thing, the Bucks are likely heavily involved in the tag division and Omega is working with the women cause he brought in the Joshi girls.
    Last edited by LK3185; 10-26-2019 at 04:12 PM.

  5. #565
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    AEW have signed British boxer and Olympic bronze medallist Anthony Ogogo. Might be the sort of thing that will get some new eyes on the company here and get some more eyes on the product on this side of the Atlantic.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  6. #566
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    AEW have signed British boxer and Olympic bronze medallist Anthony Ogogo. Might be the sort of thing that will get some new eyes on the company here and get some more eyes on the product on this side of the Atlantic.
    Woah, that's an interesting one. It's not that long ago he was registered blind, I think due to an injury he received in his final professional fight. Think he's done very minimal professional wrestling in small UK indies, but nothing too mainstream as far as I'm aware.

  7. #567
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    Don't think I've ever heard of the guy. It'll be interesting to see how they incorporate him.

  8. #568
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    We've now got the data for the week of the 7th-13th, and there's still no sign of it across the combined live/time-shifted top 15 programmes for ITV4. All we can be sure of is that it was somewhere less than 184,000. That could be 183,000, or it could be 5,000. No way of knowing, but either way it's still weaker than it should be on paper. At the moment the top performing shows on the station are skewed towards the Rugby World Cup, so perhaps once that is over we'll see them emerging near the bottom of the list.

    As I did it for the first week, films that beat AEW Dynamite for that week on ITV4 were The Mechanic, Kelly's Heroes, and Jaws.

    Carrying on with this, we've got the UK data for the week of the 14-20th... and it looks like more bad news. It's still nowhere to be seen, and the number that it takes to get in there is dropping. ITV's 15th most popular show - and the last to be individually listed - scored 167,200 viewers. So we know it's less than that. Two things - either AEW is trending downward here as well, so that it continually misses the list, or it's hugely under-performed expectations from the start. It's starting to look like - despite having way better promotion and a more prominent station - this might not be doing that much better than Impact, and way worse than Impact's high point.

    Films that beat Dynamite this week were Terminator II: Judgement Day, Apollo 13, and Police Academy 2. Perhaps more embarrassing, they were beaten by a re-run of an episode of the much-maligned comedy, Mr Bean.

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  9. #569
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    So.much.Mr. Bean.hate...


  10. #570
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    Carrying on with this, we've got the UK data for the week of the 14-20th... and it looks like more bad news. It's still nowhere to be seen, and the number that it takes to get in there is dropping. ITV's 15th most popular show - and the last to be individually listed - scored 167,200 viewers. So we know it's less than that. Two things - either AEW is trending downward here as well, so that it continually misses the list, or it's hugely under-performed expectations from the start. It's starting to look like - despite having way better promotion and a more prominent station - this might not be doing that much better than Impact, and way worse than Impact's high point.

    Films that beat Dynamite this week were Terminator II: Judgement Day, Apollo 13, and Police Academy 2. Perhaps more embarrassing, they were beaten by a re-run of an episode of the much-maligned comedy, Mr Bean.
    Slight correction to this - the 15th number was 168,448. The rating in the original post was the number who watched it on a TV set, not the 'four screen' total.

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  11. #571
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    Sorry for the double post, but for the show on the 27th, we have it!

    170,690. Good enough for tenth overall on the channel.

    No films on the station were able to outdraw it this week, and it even managed to beat out Scarface and two different episodes of Mr. Bean.

    There's no way of knowing whether they are gaining viewers or if it's sort of hovering around that number and it just hasn't been able to get onto the list on the more packed weeks. But we at least have an idea of sort of where they are.

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  12. #572
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    Still surprised to see it so low. Will definitely be curious to see if it grows in time.

  13. #573
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    Again, me too. It's been promoted well on the main ITV channel and even at the end, WoS got 400,000. And that rating was called 'catastrophic' just last year.

    It basically looks like about 3/4 of the UK wrestling audience for TNA at it's peak is watching AEW, but that they haven't really pulled in anyone who could be called a casual.

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  14. #574
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    I thought TNA viewership was a lot higher than that, possibly due to the channel they were on or something? I remember for years it seemed any wrestling with good distribution in the UK seemed to grab a lot of eyes. Either something's off or WWE's attempt to take over all wrestling in the country was more successful than I thought (though I feel like I've heard number for NXT UK are also very low).

  15. #575
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    Prime I know you are quoting UK numbers, do you know the US numbers?

  16. #576
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    Powder, you'll have to be more specific about what numbers you mean.

    Mizzie, here's the range for a couple of years of TNA on Challenge. As you can see their numbers varied wildly - my percentage above was based on a bit of an estimate of the average.

    2011: 134,000 - 297,000
    2012: 154,000 - 278,000
    2013: 159,000 - 268,000
    2014: 127,000 - 284,000


    There's some freak results either side but that's broadly the range. Seems the average until May of 2014 was over 200,000.

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  17. #577
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    Is Shawn Spears stealing LA Park's gimmick?

    https://www.prowrestlingtees.com/wre...an-cometh.html

  18. #578
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    You know, it just hit me.

    AEW is the modern day ECW.

    ECW was formed because Heyman and his friends wanted to start a wrestling program that was new and different from the WWE and WCW. And they did. But let's look a little closer.

    Which company am I describing here? ECW or AEW?

    • Rabid, dedicated fanbase, that chanted the company name for everything.
    • Prided themselves on finding new, young talent, existing talent that the big companies wouldn't take a chance on, and disgruntled talent that the big companies wore out or did not utilize to the best of their ability.
    • Prided themselves on having true hardcore matches.
    • Accepted the lucha libre style of wrestling into their program, and promoted that style.
    • Prided themselves on being different than the WWE/WCW.
    • Focused on the wrestling, with backstage segments and inring promos used to help plots, not monopolize time with endless 20+ minute promos.
    • Tag Team Wrestling is meaningful.
    • Allows promos to be unscripted to help with emotion and connection.



    I'm sure there are much more similarities, but based on just those 8, you cannot deny that AEW is like a new version of ECW.

  19. #579
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    I mean, that's also TNA.

  20. #580
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    And several others....

    Anyway, you know what time it is - British ratings time! Here's the reminder of last week....

    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    Sorry for the double post, but for the show on the 27th, we have it!

    170,690. Good enough for tenth overall on the channel.

    No films on the station were able to outdraw it this week, and it even managed to beat out Scarface and two different episodes of Mr. Bean.

    There's no way of knowing whether they are gaining viewers or if it's sort of hovering around that number and it just hasn't been able to get onto the list on the more packed weeks. But we at least have an idea of sort of where they are.

    But... there's no sign of it for the go-home show. We're back to estimating where it is based on the lowest performer in the list. It must be less than 151,000 viewers for this past episode of Dynamite, because that's what the 15th best show on ITV 4 got. It's too early to draw any real conclusions but perhaps 170,000 was a temporary spike? Anyway, the best case scenario is a drop on the week of more than 10% of the audience.

    Films that beat Dynamite this week include The Outlaw Josey Wales and Ransom.

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  21. #581
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Chop View Post
    I mean, that's also TNA.
    If AEW were like TNA Cody, Kenny and the Bucks all would be undefeated and the next PPV would be a four way for the title between the four of them.

    There'd also be a biker stable.


  22. #582
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    Yeah, I think those statements are too broad to really create a striking similarity. And Heyman didn't really start ECW, he took an existing group in a new direction over a period of time and didn't really have a specific group of friends that were doing it with him (as far as I know), he just picked up people along the way and figured out how to use them.

  23. #583
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    You know, it just hit me.

    AEW is the modern day ECW.

    ECW was formed because Heyman and his friends wanted to start a wrestling program that was new and different from the WWE and WCW. And they did. But let's look a little closer.

    Which company am I describing here? ECW or AEW?

    • Rabid, dedicated fanbase, that chanted the company name for everything.
    • Prided themselves on finding new, young talent, existing talent that the big companies wouldn't take a chance on, and disgruntled talent that the big companies wore out or did not utilize to the best of their ability.
    • Prided themselves on having true hardcore matches.
    • Accepted the lucha libre style of wrestling into their program, and promoted that style.
    • Prided themselves on being different than the WWE/WCW.
    • Focused on the wrestling, with backstage segments and inring promos used to help plots, not monopolize time with endless 20+ minute promos.
    • Tag Team Wrestling is meaningful.
    • Allows promos to be unscripted to help with emotion and connection.



    I'm sure there are much more similarities, but based on just those 8, you cannot deny that AEW is like a new version of ECW.
    Is the answer '2014 NXT'?

    EDIT: no, hang on, it's Lucha Underground isn't it?
    Last edited by Oliver; 4 Weeks Ago at 04:50 PM.

  24. #584
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    ECW wasn't bankrolled by a billionaire (the Vince support isn't nearly the same), fuck outta here with that contrarianism.
    Last edited by T.O.; 4 Weeks Ago at 06:13 PM.

  25. #585
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    Slight correction to my earlier post - that last rating wasn't for the go-home show which we don't have info for yet. It was for the show first aired on October 30th.

    Here's a summary of everything so far. The < sign indicates both that it was less than that number and that Dynamite didn't rank in the top 15 ITV4 shows for the week.

    1: <191,100
    2: <184,627
    3: <168,448
    4: 170,689 – ranked 12th (revised down from 10th)
    5: <151,005

    When I saw that the week four ranking had dropped a couple - presumably as a result of time-shifted viewing - I double-checked each week's rankings to see if there was any sign of it coming in late. But nothing. That shouldn't be a surprise as it seems there's even less reason to believe that they'd make a big difference here than there is in the US, since more than 90% of our TV is still viewed live.

    I looked at the show results, and it looks like the one that has done well is the one with the Jericho/Cody brawl and the 'invisible wall' promo. No telling that's what actually got the extra number, or even that it was anything beyond people taking a look one week, but that's the week where viewership did seem to go up - whether by a statistically significant amount or not.

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  26. #586
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    Quote Originally Posted by T.O. View Post
    ECW wasn't bankrolled by a billionaire (the Vince support isn't nearly the same), fuck outta here with that contrarianism.
    That doesn't change the fact that the answer is Lucha Underground, though.

    Khan should have bankrolled season 5 of LU. Or the LU film I've scripted, where The Order are set on destroying the seven Aztec tribes while the rest of the LU roster are split more than ever. Can Dario Cueto bring them together and unite the tribes to repel the Order? Can anybody save Fenix from a walk on the darkside? Or will Jake Strong, Bade Warret, and everyone else in The Order bring about worldwide destruction?

    I miss LU
    Last edited by Oliver; 4 Weeks Ago at 06:56 AM.

  27. #587
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    We're going to have to go to the LU thread and trade stories on how we'd do season five Ollie. All of which is to say I MISS IT TOO!


  28. #588
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    To the thread!

  29. #589
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    It'd make sense to me if that Cody window breaking segment captured some viewership. Possibly the hottest segment they've done yet.

  30. #590
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    I wouldn't be surprised either. Jericho and Cody are the elements that have had overwhelmingly positive responses and that's probably the point of maximum tension, prior to the match at least. So it might be just that numbers do go up and down a bit, but I wouldn't be shocked if that week was tied to the content.

    Funny in a sense because I've heard good things about the match and the angle and I think I might like it. But it's the only thing that it applies to and... it's kinda already over.

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  31. #591
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    I'd be shocked if we didn't revisit Cody/Jericho down the line in some form... whether they find a compelling way to overturn the stip eventually or they meet again after Jericho loses the title, either way there's gonna be some great stuff. Hell, Elite vs. Inner Circle is bound to continue so you know they're gonna keep butting heads, and I think AEW has already shown they're capable of continuing a rivalry without relying on a constant stream of rematches.

  32. #592
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    I guess what I mean is, if you are on the outside and that is the thing that would bring you in, it's already gone. Not that the feud is over exactly, so much as you have to wait for it to build up to something again.

    I guess I'm just wondering if they went to their most bankable card a bit fast. Not sure what they try and lure a new fan in with next.

    Moxley, maybe?

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  33. #593
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    I would have thought the potential for a slower build would be up your alley, Pete! Though concern over how it might effect the draw towards new fans is a valid one.

    I think it's telling that if you go back 3 months (maybe a bit more), I don't think Jericho/Cody would have been seen as a hot hand at all. Both guys did a lot of legwork to make it into a marquee event that fans would consider paying to see. So now AEW can continue with Cody/Jericho right away in other forms, especially if MJF aligns with the Inner Circle, or they can split Cody and MJF for a bit and explore the next potential hot hand. Moxley does seem like a guy with a whole lot of buzz right now, so he could very easily be the next big name that challenges and I think it would get people's attention.

    Amazing that Jericho vs. Moxley was a feud WWE ran in 2016 and it was so bad that both guys basically dropped off my hype list entirely. 3 years later and it's actually a match I'd be really interested to see. Neither guy feels remotely the same, goes to show what happens when you change the narrative.

  34. #594
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    Absolutely up my alley in principle - provided you're already in. From the outside, I'm just wondering where the actual hook is going to come.

    Though let's be honest in my particular case the problem has nothing to do with how they are handling that feud.

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  35. #595
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    I guess I'm just wondering if they went to their most bankable card a bit fast. Not sure what they try and lure a new fan in with next.

    Moxley, maybe?
    It's a little too similar to Stone Cold Jon Moxley right now, but there's no doubt he's the best breakout star in all of English speaking american wrestling.

  36. #596
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    There's no doubt in my mind that Moxley is the guy to beat Jericho. The question is when do you do it. If I'm booking, and I understand it's playing with fire here, I hold off until Double or Nothing in May. The show is in Vegas, Moxley's current hometown, so the pop would be enormous and you'd be giving Jericho, who I think has been a tremendous champion, a proper enough first reign. After that I'd have Moxley hold the title till Full Gear when Omega, after a year long path of redemption, finally gets the victory over Moxley and the title he seemed destined to win from the start. I think that works great in a full circle way. It just comes down to whether AEW can hold off from doing that and what do they do with Moxley, Jericho and Omega in the meantime. At least with Jericho there will still be the Inner Circle/Elite feud to occupy his time and I think AEW would be wise to do what they did with Darby Allin where they give some of the lower card guys a shot to hang with Jericho in title matches on Dynamite. It's trickier with Moxley and Omega; I suppose you could do Moxley and Pac seeing as there was no clean winner but that still leaves Omega with a question mark. I wonder if maybe there's a big surprise coming for him, given that video that played on Halloween a few weeks ago and what that featured.


  37. #597
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    Cult, I respectfully disagree.

    Nowhere in your fantasy booking did you include OC taking his hands out of his pockets, and winning the AEW title. Just to put his hands back in and lose his next match cause he doesnt give af


  38. #598
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    But what you've forgotten, Kleck, is that The OC will have installed a wedge inside his jacket that prevents his shoulders ever being on the mat. So begins his six year reign.

  39. #599
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    I knew fans of this sort of thing were secretly longing for the days of Jim Herd....

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  40. #600
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    All I'm saying is that if there's a team of gay bell ringers called The Campanologists I wouldn't be surprised. I'd also be super into it.

    Quote Originally Posted by mizfan View Post
    I'd be shocked if we didn't revisit Cody/Jericho down the line in some form... whether they find a compelling way to overturn the stip eventually
    I mean, the stipulation is that Cody won't challenge for the title again, right? So the ways of overturning that are numerous and the storytelling could be really fantastic around it - having Cody not challenge but be called out by the champion at the time, for example. You could probably only pull that sort of card once, though, and then perhaps you need to give Cody the title in the bout to not waste it as a storytelling device.

    I suppose as well, Cody could not 'challenge' for the title but win an opportunity in a tournament or similar - that would be absolutely superb from a storytelling arc perspective, if he is in a situation like that. Heck, it's a great story to tell if Cody has to earn a chance rather than actively challenge a champion, but just can't get over the hurdles in front of him to win it.
    Last edited by Oliver; 3 Weeks Ago at 06:17 AM.

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