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  1. #521
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEN15v2 View Post
    Honestly, I think she's the perfect option right now. But (AEW diehards aren't going to like this part) it's because the AEW women's division is fucking awful.
    I know we've got people here who'll disagree but this sentiment actually came up a lot, which is surprising since I wasn't even looking for it.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  2. #522
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    I still think Riho is a great option even if the women's division was stronger but there is no doubt the women's division is the weakest part of the show. Part of it is they haven't established the entire roster; they have talented people like Bea Priestley (who I don't think is unsafe. She's had issues with Baker but she has no history of injuring people besides her), Penelope Ford, Allie, Yuka Sakazaki, Nyla Rose (who I think is really underrated) and especially Hikaru Shida who just haven't had enough time to develop. But the rest of the roster is thin. I do think Britt Baker has ability but she's clearly still very green and needs time. Sadie Gibbs is an incredible athlete but she's very much like Private Party in that she has a lot of impressive moves but needs to work on getting the little things down. Leva Bates is delightful but in the ring she's brutal to watch. Brandi Rhodes should just be a manager. Aja Kong is part time and works best as an attraction. And frankly so should Awesome Kong, who while still a great presence is now 42 and back problems have sapped a lot of her ability. It's really a division of Riho, the two Kong's when they appear and a bunch of women who range from talented to green who have little to no exposure on TV.

    What's the solution? If it's me I put Riho in there with some the joshi talent for the time being (her vs. Yuka, Sakura and even Aja Kong are matches that will at least be good), I'd begin to push some of the more ready talent like Allie, Shida and Penelope Ford and I'd be signing some of those women from the Battle Royal. Mercedes Martinez and Ivelisse should definitely be brought in (I know Ivelisse has attitude problems but she's easily one of the most talented female wrestlers out there), Shazza McKenzie is really good and I'd be taking a long look at Kris Stadtlander, who's well on her way to being a world class talent. That would be the short term plan. Long term I think they have to get Tessa Blanchard when she becomes available. Obviously she'll be well sought after; Impact has pretty much made her one of the top overall stars and will want to keep her and no doubt WWE will make her a big offer. If I'm AEW though that's where I go big on an offer because she's tremendous (at least in my opinion) and she'd instantly be a shot in the arm for the division. She also won't be available until the summer, so it will give AEW time to develop the women they have in the meantime.


  3. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    I don't know if anyone was interested in the UK ratings discussion that we were having, but if you were... it's hard to judge how their first week did, because I can't find a specific number for them, and they didn't make the top fifteen shows for the channel which means they don't get displayed in the general BARB results. But it does look like, across what they call their 'Four Screen Dashboard' which collates live viewing with OD across TV, Smartphone, Tablet and PC viewers, they must have done less than 191,000 for their debut show, or they'd have made the top 15.

    So it could still be better than WWE manage behind a paywall, but it does look like the TNA viewers and the WoS viewers haven't flocked to AEW for their debut. It was actually beaten out on this list by reruns of Clint Eastwood's Unforgiven and of Lethal Weapon 4.

    In a few days we'll have data for week 2, so maybe that'll change the look of things.
    We've now got the data for the week of the 7th-13th, and there's still no sign of it across the combined live/time-shifted top 15 programmes for ITV4. All we can be sure of is that it was somewhere less than 184,000. That could be 183,000, or it could be 5,000. No way of knowing, but either way it's still weaker than it should be on paper. At the moment the top performing shows on the station are skewed towards the Rugby World Cup, so perhaps once that is over we'll see them emerging near the bottom of the list.

    As I did it for the first week, films that beat AEW Dynamite for that week on ITV4 were The Mechanic, Kelly's Heroes, and Jaws.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  4. #524
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    We're gonna need a bigger boat > The Elite

    Not even trolling, it's as accurate as can be. Jaws is an amazing, near flawless movie.

  5. #525
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    Except for the laughable death of Quint.

    Jaws is amazing, but Quint's death is silly. Bruce jumping out of the water, landing on the back of the Orca, jaws (no pun intended) flapping and Quint slides down the boat into his mouth. The rest of the movie is brilliant, but Qunit's death is iffy at best.

  6. #526
    I don't see it happening because it would be a risk for a guy who seems to like playing it safe, but a motivated and slightly re-invented Randy Orton in AEW would be fascinating. Him in any other company besides WWE is very strange to imagine, but he may see what Jericho is doing in AEW and like the thought of being the top star of a smaller pond.

  7. #527
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    Orton may have been trolling, but over the weekend, he posted a photo to Instagram of himself standing in front of a door plaque that reads “Elite”. “Level” is shadowed out on purpose. For the caption he wrote, “tick tock tick tock.” The location tagged in the post is Jacksonville, Florida and the wrestlers tagged in the post are: The Revival (Scott Dawson & Dash Wilder), Luke Harper, Riddick Moss, Cody Rhodes, Chris Jericho, and Elias. Jericho replied to the post saying, “Send in a tape and some pix and I’ll see what I can do…��”

    Screen-Shot-2019-10-21-at-2.31.51-AM-900x480.jpg

    The main page had the story...here.
    Last edited by Powder; 3 Weeks Ago at 10:25 AM.

  8. #528
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    EDIT: Computer is screwey...don't know why it double posted.

  9. #529
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    The Orton rumor has been around almost all year after Sean Ross Sapp mentioned that Orton had interest in AEW back in February. Of course he also mentioned The Usos had interest as well and that turned out to be them just leveraging WWE for money (they re-signed in April and have promptly disappeared since due to another DUI incident). I do know he's a fan of AEW based on this apparent Twitch stream he did a few weeks ago (in particular he seemed to Sammy Guevara), he's very close with Cody and with AEW he'd only be working 52 weeks a year because AEW is only doing TV and the 4 big PPV events (plus maybe a special or too), a nice schedule for a guy who wants to work less. Whether that overrules the insane amount of money WWE will surely offer to keep him will be something we all find out next year. My gut is he'll probably re-sign, unless there's a story we don't know about about him being absolutely miserable in WWE (which there's been no indication of).

    Also, Jaws is fucking awesome. Great film and has an all time great monologue in the form of Quint discussing his experience with the U.S.S Indianapolis. That speech is one of those hallmark moments in cinema and exactly the reason why Quint's death is iffy. Guy has an all time great speech, comes off as the ultimate bad ass and then five minutes later he's getting eaten like he's the biggest geek this side of Finn Balor.


  10. #530
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    Does Orton need an insane amount of money though? I know, everyone wants more money, but there does come a time in professional wrestlers lives when they do have to ask themselves what is more important: Continue working 300+ dates a year and all the travel for an insane amount of money, or work less dates, get to spend much more time with my family, and also get more time off to allow my aging body to recover and heal, and yes make less money.

    I know that if I had already made the money that Orton has, I would lean towards AEW, and let Vince know that, to use as leverage. Maybe Vince will give him more time off, and more money, but who knows. Maybe the move to RAW will result in another push (yawn) and another title run (yawn again) to appease Orton? Who knows.


    Eleven hundred men went into the water. 316 men come out, the sharks took the rest, June the 29th, 1945.

    Anyway, we delivered the bomb.
    Last edited by Powder; 3 Weeks Ago at 10:50 AM.

  11. #531
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cult Icon View Post
    he'd only be working 52 weeks a year
    Call me crazy because I haven't slept properly in about eight days now, but isn't that..... all the weeks?

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  12. #532
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    Call me crazy because I haven't slept properly in about eight days now, but isn't that..... all the weeks?
    Yes, but I think the implication is that he will work all 52 Dynamite shows and the 4 PPVs making it a total of 56 days in a 365 day year. Not 300+ days the WWE asks of you.

    And the highlighted quote reminds me of Deadpool. "I gonna need all the guns. Which ones? ALL OF THEM!"
    Last edited by Powder; 3 Weeks Ago at 11:04 AM.

  13. #533
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    Yes, believe it or not I got that.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  14. #534
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    Yes, but I think the implication is that he will work all 52 Dynamite shows and the 4 PPVs making it a total of 56 days in a 365 day year. Not 300+ days the WWE asks of you.
    They really don't have the same schedule that they used to. It's more like three to four days per week.
    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    Does Orton need an insane amount of money though? I know, everyone wants more money, but there does come a time in professional wrestlers lives when they do have to ask themselves what is more important: Continue working 300+ dates a year and all the travel for an insane amount of money, or work less dates, get to spend much more time with my family, and also get more time off to allow my aging body to recover and heal, and yes make less money.
    Orton can have both. WWE sees a lot of value in Orton, obviously, and probably want the guy for life. If it's not just about going to wrestle with his friends or going to try something new for him, they have this new program called NXT that shoots weekly in one location in a very lovely climate a half hour away from Disney for his young family. They'd probably love a big star on that program, and have the money to pay him to do it.

    It's a different world than it was a month ago when it comes to what WWE can (and will) offer.

  15. #535
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    Yes, believe it or not I got that.
    Nothing goes over your head, your reflexes are too fast.


    Quote Originally Posted by Team Farrell View Post
    They really don't have the same schedule that they used to. It's more like three to four days per week.

    Orton can have both. WWE sees a lot of value in Orton, obviously, and probably want the guy for life. If it's not just about going to wrestle with his friends or going to try something new for him, they have this new program called NXT that shoots weekly in one location in a very lovely climate a half hour away from Disney for his young family. They'd probably love a big star on that program, and have the money to pay him to do it.

    It's a different world than it was a month ago when it comes to what WWE can (and will) offer.
    So instead of 300+ it may be closer to 200-250+, which is a significant difference, but still at least twice as much as AEW.

    But I like your idea of Orton going to NXT. I would love for a lot of seasoned guys to go there giving more legitimacy to the brand and elevating it simply by the veteran's presence.

    "And it is a different world than 5 minutes ago, you pancake eating mother fucker."
    Last edited by Powder; 3 Weeks Ago at 11:17 AM.

  16. #536
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    We're assuming he would want to go to NXT. Despite what many people claim (and probably will claim in response to what I'm about to say) NXT is still seen by many to be the third brand of WWE and even still the developmental brand. Is Randy Orton going to want to be on the WWE's third brand that, as of now, is wrestling in front of 400 fans and being watched by significantly fewer people than the shows Orton is already on? Money talks but ego talks as well and I would be very surprised to see Orton be receptive to that, especially when the other options are wrestling in front of fans in big arenas with TV audiences in the millions.


    If he's going to stay with WWE it'll be on the main roster. And mind you that's the best possibility of what happens. It'll come down to whether AEW can get an offer that's within the range of what WWE is offering and seeing as AEW isn't willing to overspend at this point (they didn't with Cain Velasquez at least) it seems likely to me WWE will just offer an exuberant amount with fewer dates than before and Orton will just go back, unless he just really wants a change of scenery.


  17. #537
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    Powder, Orton already works a reduced schedule. He's not working 200 dates a year with his current schedule.

    I think he's just bored. And to be fair, what else could he do in WWE. Moving to another company would have excitement WWE could never match. Is that enough to make the move? I doubt Orton has much keeping him tied to WWE at this time, other familiarity. Not a bad thing by any means. But I don't think money or schedule is much of a factor right now. I would bet on it being a 50/50 chance that he'd jump if he could, or if he's just playing around.

  18. #538
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    I think its leverage to get more money. He doesn't work a ridiclous schedule like some others in the company and it would be less anyway with a hard brand split and the company trying to figure out how house shows work . Last time Orton worked 200 plus matches was 2013. He's worked 63 matches this year

    He's still relatively young where he could leave and then come back for one last run if he wanted to. Hardly ever injured. I don't see him leaving though because I don't believe that he cares about being motivated or doing something different. If AEW offered him more money per date, he would take it. Otherwise, i can't see it.

  19. #539
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    The top guys in WWE only wrestle about 180-200 days a year. And by top I mean the top like 2%.

    The average is somewhere around 160.

    I couldnt see Orton leaving, mainly because WWE might not extend one of those very cushy legends contracts to him. They could also bribe him with enough more world title runs to be the record holder, less dates, a little more money. I'd be shocked to see him leave.


  20. #540
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kleckamania View Post
    The top guys in WWE only wrestle about 180-200 days a year. And by top I mean the top like 2%.

    The average is somewhere around 160.

    I couldnt see Orton leaving, mainly because WWE might not extend one of those very cushy legends contracts to him. They could also bribe him with enough more world title runs to be the record holder, less dates, a little more money. I'd be shocked to see him leave.
    could also be a false promise they are known for lol.

  21. #541
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    Orton strikes me as being creatively unfulfilled in WWE. Entirely speculation on my part, but when your main thing for, what, three or four years now is to arrive-RKO-leave then maybe have a match without any character development or much more of a significant storyline...I don't know, I think I'd be bored shitless if I was him.

    WWE might well offer him a big deal - but I wouldn't bet that Khan can't match it easily.

  22. #542
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    Cult, I have to ask. Are all/most Lucha Libre matches like how the Lucha Bros vs Party Planners was?

    If so, then damn.

    BUT, I can see both sides of the coin. One one side it was a completely impressive spot fest from 4 incredibly talented and athletic performers with almost no tagging and more like a tornado tag match, where no tags are necessary, and on the other side there was almost no tag team wrestling with strategy.

    But holy shit was that fun and entertaining. For my taste, i would prefer a combination of the two. Have both teams use tag tram psychology, but still show off.

  23. #543
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    I would say it was more a PWG/West Coast Indy style match than pure lucha libra, but lucha is an influence on that style so there's some overlap.

    I could so easily see an actual called "The Party Planners" in, like, 2008 WWE.

  24. #544
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    Crap...Private Party. But thanks.

  25. #545
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    To be honest, I thought Private Party vs Lucha Bros was awful. Not in terms of action which was as crisp as expected, but in terms of the way they set about having the match itself.

    They were doing all this Lucha tag rules stuff where once the legal man touches the outside the other man is legal, but that went completely unexplained and has never been established as the tag rules in the promotion. I'm all for them doing that if they say 'it's Lucha rules' or whatever before the match starts, but without that you've got legal men being covered by illegal men and the ref counting all over the place. Plus, at one point, despite Fenix being nowhere near the ring, it became important that Pentagon was the legal man for some reason, despite it having never been important through the rest of the match and the ref having already shown that he would pretty much count anybody pinning anybody. Half of the double team stuff wasn't even behind the refs back or anything, it was wide open and there were no tags involved - for example, at one point Fenix does a double jump foot stomp to one of Private Party, but Pentagon's the legal man and in the ring. No tag, no ref distraction, Pentagon's just calmly walking across the ring as Bryce Remberg stands and watches this happen. That's not even legal in the sense of Lucha rules! So what ruleset were they adhering to? Or were they just agenting the match backstage and someone went 'Rules? Fuck rules, Cero Miedo!' and that was it?

    Otherwise I thought the show was solid from the end of that match until TV time expired (which I loved as a thing to happen). Just that, as an opener, that was really off putting for me. And I say that as someone who is very much a fan of Lucha Bros.

    Oh, and the sooner we live in a World with AEW Heavyweight Champion Orange Cassidy in it, the better.
    Last edited by Oliver; 3 Weeks Ago at 09:22 AM.

  26. #546
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    Been some twitter discussion today about JR bemoaning the tag rules in AEW and I would say to that if you're not going to have strict tag rules, JR can't be burying the rules and such in the match. its distracting and serves no point. if its important, make it important. if its not, then shut up.

  27. #547
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    I always find it worse when everyone ignores the rules. It's better to try and cover it than ignore it. I don't know if that extends so far as burying it and I don't have a clue what JR actually said, but to be honest I'm not sure it can be much worse than just ignoring it, other than for those fans who are already convinced (who, let's face it, JR is not there to appeal to anyway). But ignoring it outright, that's a sure-fire way to put over that your chat about sports presentation was a load of crap, for one thing.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  28. #548
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    Its better to cover for it than to call it out i would agree. JR doesn't do that now though. He comes off as a grumpy old man complaining when he's at his worst and that's not good for the show.

    If you don't draw attention to a flaw then most likely people aren't worried about it at a certain point.
    Last edited by LK3185; 3 Weeks Ago at 10:31 AM.

  29. #549
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    I think the opposite, personally, that most people get confused by stuff like that and mentally tune out. The people who don't do that and who don't notice until it is pointed out are the ones already in tune with what you're doing, who - again - are not the people that they have JR there for in the first place.

    But as to how he's coming across, I of course have no real opinion.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  30. #550
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    What I'm saying though is if those rules aren't strict, then pointing it out is pointless. "This is stupid chaos and the ref should be fired " is basically what that is and doesn't come off well for the product and I think would make people tuning in want to turn off... instead of like yeah it is stupid but i'll keep watching cause at least JR told me it was stupid.

  31. #551
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    I know what you're saying. What I'm saying is that unless you're already in step with it odds are the product comes across poorly anyway, so nothing anyone says is going to make a huge difference to that one way or the other. So it's hard for me to see how it'll matter, other than to people who are going to watch anyway.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  32. #552
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    Quote Originally Posted by LK3185 View Post
    What I'm saying though is if those rules aren't strict, then pointing it out is pointless. "This is stupid chaos and the ref should be fired " is basically what that is and doesn't come off well for the product and I think would make people tuning in want to turn off... instead of like yeah it is stupid but i'll keep watching cause at least JR told me it was stupid.
    I'm sure Cody knew this coming in, but JR is going to call this like an actual sport, and isn't going to bury his credibility as an announcer. He's said so very plainly in recent months. If something happens that he can't in good conscience call, he lays out entirely (most of the time if goofy comedy shit is on there or stuff that makes absolutely no sense), but if something flys completely in the face of the rules set forth by the company, he's going to point it out. As he should, and as you'd expect any sports announcer to do.

    JR has stated a number of times on commentary that AEW has slightly different tag team rules. He even applauded them for having the 10-count instead of five because, as he said, "it's a more realistic timeframe". But you can bet he's going to point it out when rules are blatantly ignored. Not doing so is a great way to shit all over your rules, and rules only mean something at all if they're enforced. This is a company where "wins and losses matter" and "we're going to have a more sports oriented presentation". That only works if rules are enforced on everyone equally.

    JR doesn't need to change this, Cody or Tony or Hebner or someone needs to grow a fucking backbone and tell these guys to work within the company's rules. You have a 10 count to work with, work with it. Or, fuck, do what every referee in the history of pro wrestling, right through to today, is taught to do and count the fuckers out. If they're going to bury you by not even making an attempt to work within the rules -- and that's all it is, burying your ref and making them look like a fool -- count them out or DQ them. Let them sort it out in the back with Cody.

  33. #553
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    I would just figure and want everyone to be on the same page. From the wrestlers, backstage people to the announcers.. its not just JR, Excalibur said something like 'rules matter here' and yet, whatever rules AEW does have aren't clearly defined and some people are doing their own thing.. Tony Khan is the boss but I don't believe he's taken control like he should have to help with the flow. They also have really smart people backstage as producers

    I would be fine with pointing out the flaws if it meant anything to what was going on.. like if heels were cheating the rules it would make sense.

  34. #554
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    It's the fact that it's so "by the boys, for the boys" that's becoming a problem with this type of stuff. I have a feeling that Tony wants to be one of "the boys" and as long as the company isn't tanking he's happy to do it.

    But take a peek at who works for that company. Cody, Brandi, The Bucks, Kenny, Anderson, Lynn, Malenko, and so on. Anderson, Lynn and Malenko will offer feedback, and are probably agenting matches on some level, but I have no idea what that looks like in AEW, it appears that everyone is just allowed to do their thing.

    They don't have a Cornette or a Kevin Sullivan or a Bret Hart. Someone who doesn't have friendly or emotional ties to the guys and will tear a strip off them when they get to the back if they do things like that, regardless of whether it's the greenest green guy or Pentagon.

  35. #555
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    I don't really have a problem with the shows, quite enjoy them in fact but it does feel like all they're told is you got this amount of time, go out there and do your thing. I wonder what goes on when things have to be cut short. They actually hit the draw earlier and it kept going like you mentioned earlier. In vids, its looked like Cody is running the show when he's not performing but it must be others too.

  36. #556
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    This nitpicking is odd. I'm not against it at all. In fact, I am so certain that if WWE did these things, they'd be critically attacked really hard. For example, if a cage match ended in a seemingly DQ, I think fans would get upset at WWE. If only I had a recent example of this...

    Yet, Dynamite ended the first show with a mid-match attack that not only took one of the competitors out of the match, but didn't end in a DQ. The tag match with a complete lack of logic just to be a highlight reel on the latest episode is just the newest example. And right now, the hypocrisy is strong as AEW fans are finding ways to defend it.

    But in the end, every promotion has their own version of logic. This can be AEW's style, and make it work. It'll bug people, but if more people overlook it like they are right now, then let them do it. It bugs me, especially with the supposed "real sports" approach and the other BS they claim to make them special. But more people are forgiving than critical at this moment...so I get why they are going this route.

  37. #557
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Farrell View Post
    It's the fact that it's so "by the boys, for the boys" that's becoming a problem with this type of stuff. I have a feeling that Tony wants to be one of "the boys" and as long as the company isn't tanking he's happy to do it.
    Let's project a few months down the road and the initial boom has worn off and ratings slip. Will Cody be able to step up and be the man in charge? Now, he is one of the boys, but can he be an authority figure and lay down some law if need be? If he can't then regardless of how ratings spike or fall, the company will implode. Every business needs the person in charge in order to run well. Without a clear hierarchy of authority and a "man in charge" the inmates could very well run the asylum, and that was part of the reason that WCW fell hard.

  38. #558
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEN15v2 View Post
    This nitpicking is odd. I'm not against it at all. In fact, I am so certain that if WWE did these things, they'd be critically attacked really hard. For example, if a cage match ended in a seemingly DQ, I think fans would get upset at WWE. If only I had a recent example of this...

    Yet, Dynamite ended the first show with a mid-match attack that not only took one of the competitors out of the match, but didn't end in a DQ. The tag match with a complete lack of logic just to be a highlight reel on the latest episode is just the newest example. And right now, the hypocrisy is strong as AEW fans are finding ways to defend it.

    But in the end, every promotion has their own version of logic. This can be AEW's style, and make it work. It'll bug people, but if more people overlook it like they are right now, then let them do it. It bugs me, especially with the supposed "real sports" approach and the other BS they claim to make them special. But more people are forgiving than critical at this moment...so I get why they are going this route.
    I should note that I'm not trying to defend any logic. TBH, I don't even know what AEW's internal logic is. I'm just going with what's being presented cause I'm entertained in most cases.


    Same with WWE or movies that don't really make logical sense. If it entertains me (like that Private Party match ) Then i don't care.

    it would be nice if things made more sense but not a requirement

  39. #559
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    627
    I didn't mean you, or anyone, in particular.

  40. #560
    The Brain
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    3,220
    Regarding the tagging thing, I feel like there are a couple of easy solutions. Either A. make tornado tags more common and clearly announce the rules before the match, or B. clearly institute lucha tag rules, meaning leaving the ring and touching the floor is as good as a hand to hand tag. It doesn't bother me that much because it's been super common for so many years in the wrestling I watch, but it could always be better with more clarity.

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