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  1. #761
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    An interesting call. And 50k would still be impressive enough to shut me up.

    I guess the only downside is Newcastle is a lot less well connected than London, Birmingham, Manchester, where the WWE tended to run shows - so getting fans from other parts of the country would be harder. But if it was a one-off I expect plenty would still travel, you'd think?

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  2. #762
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    Watching Christopher Daniels dance as part of SCU's entrance is painful. At 49 years old, he really looks like any Dad dancing at his daughter's Sweet 16, trying to be hip to 'the kids' music'.

  3. #763
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    Clearly PAC vs. anyone is money!

    Really enjoyed the episode of Dynamite, thought it was a strong collection of matches and they found the right amount of room for promo and character stuff to boot. All the Moxley/Jericho stuff was gold in particular, amazing how much Mox looks like a star when given half a chance.

  4. #764
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I got stuck on this idea of running it at St James' now. The capacity is about 52,000 for football, so it'd be what, say 55,000 or thereabouts by the time you've introduced some flat seating in the pitch area. My guess is you'd have to run PAC in the main event against Jericho because I don't see any other combination working, and you'd have to have Moxley and someone else on the card in a kind of Savage/Warrior role as an unofficial co-main.

    All WWE and WCW shows to be held in the North East of England have been held in what was the Metro Radio Arena with an approximate capacity of 10,000, so having the ambition to go for something like this - even if they had to give away a few comps and didn't actually fill it - would mean it was the biggest wrestling show in the Northeast of England. Hey, get it 3/4 full and it's probably the biggest British show since Summerslam 1992, though someone would be able to correct me if I'm missing anything obvious.

    I mean it's all pipedream territory but it's kinda fun to think about.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  5. #765
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    An interesting call. And 50k would still be impressive enough to shut me up.

    I guess the only downside is Newcastle is a lot less well connected than London, Birmingham, Manchester, where the WWE tended to run shows - so getting fans from other parts of the country would be harder. But if it was a one-off I expect plenty would still travel, you'd think?
    I think so, yeah - I mean, the stadium is really central and only a short trek from the station, so it wouldn't be too bad to get to by public transport and, realistically, it's only 3 hours or so from London - I know people who have travelled longer than that for less high profile wrestling in the UK who would certainly want to go to the show.

    I enjoyed Dynamite more this week than I have for a while, for whatever that's worth. One thing I think they're starting to do better is to tie their roster together through the various storylines. Like how you've got Moxley taking on Jericho, but with PAC lined up immediately afterwards for Mox, while Omega is right in his eye line but is also running this tag team with Page, who are going against the Butcher & Blade - it feels like the roster is really interconnected, and I like that.

  6. #766
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    AEW needs more people on their roster. Yes they are doing a good job of not having everyone wrestle every week, but they usually do not miss 2 weeks in a row. But all of the matches are the same people over and over again.

    Next week we will have the Elite vs Butcher and Blade, and the Lucha Bros. We just saw those teams face off numerous times.

    I hope that in the coming months, AEW signs more people, because in the entire time they have been on the air, we get a lot of the same matches.

    WWE is guilty of it too, but it does happen less b/c of the size of the roster.

  7. #767
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    AEW connecting their roster has been a real big strength for a while now. Some of my favorite AEW segments to date have been those big show ending brawls where guys just keep running in to join the brawl because so many guys have connected storylines. Darby skateboarding down the ramp to take out Jericho while he was trying to brawl with the Elite was a favorite early moment.

    I'd love to see AEW take another big shot somewhere, be it the UK or anywhere really. They gambled big to start drawing 10,000 crowds for big shows and hit big time. Is there a next level they can shoot for if they really load up a card? Could be another success or it could reveal where their current ceiling is for live crowds, which they may not want to do right now, but it'd be real interesting.
    Last edited by mizfan; 01-30-2020 at 01:15 PM.

  8. #768
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    I guess the next logical step would be to go from a 10,000 seat arena to a 20,000 one. That'd still be a pretty big statement, if not really earth-shattering. Would put them in the ballpark of most WWE PPV's then, rather than being roughly level with shows at the smaller end for WWE. Obviously still a ways off Mania or the colossal crowds they have drawn for the last two Royal Rumbles, but still a good statement. I think for a properly promoted show they could just about do that, despite the problems we've seen with some of their attendances for Dynamite.


    To go bigger than that.... I think you probably want to go outside the US, and make it a really special event that way, because otherwise I think you're going to hit the ceiling before you could fill something the size of the arenas mentioned above. But that's also the kind of 'big shot' that would make people sit up and pay attention - something in the 30,000+ bracket.

    Of course, it's easy to sit here and talk about it - so much harder to actually do it. 20k is orders of magnitude harder than 10k, and 30k is the same again.

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  9. #769
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    Absolutely so, but the fact that nobody believed they could hit +10,000 and they've sold out many of those big shows in scant minutes gives me hope that they can keep punching upward!

  10. #770
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    Heh, I meant that more to anticipate any objections to my leaping straight past 20,000 to the bigger stadia - just in case anyone thought I was making out that it would be easy! Wasn't simply throwing out the idea that they couldn't do it.

    There is, of course, a limit - you'll find that with wrestling constituted the way that it is, you'll go from the people who will travel and sit online to buy the tickets the second they come out, to those with no interest at all, with not a lot of space or that many potential punters in between. So the speed at which they sell 10k arenas out might not matter if the crowds max out at, say, 15-16k.

    But as for here... right now if the TV ratings are to be believed there are enough people watching here in the UK that they could *theoretically* fill Wembley Stadium, never mind draw 30,000, and honestly it would all be about the conversion rate then. And that's one thing they've never had trouble with to date. Whatever you can throw at them about not pulling a mainstream audience, they turn what fans they have out consistently. So yeah - if they wanna make a super show here in the UK and put all their resources into making it special, no reason why they can't shoot for the moon. I don't think they'll do it though - I'd expect 20k in the US to happen consistently before they try and 'take the show on the road' for a major event.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  11. #771
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    British ratings in. Pretty much smack in between the last two ratings which is still weird, but actually makes both of the others make a little more sense if you think about it that way. The interesting trend this week is that they've gone from 75% of the audience watching on catch-up to just 54%. Still literally the only programme in the channels top 50 to have even broadly even numbers there, never mind a majority for catch-up over live. Whatever else we can say about it, Dynamite is definitely atypical on this station. Anyway, number for Friday 24th January added below, where it came 44th for the week.

    October
    1: <191,100
    2: 96,000
    3: 143,000
    4: 170,689 – ranked 12th (revised down from 10th)

    November
    5: 77,000
    6: 140,000
    7: < 81,000 (post-Full Gear)
    8: 86,000
    9: 120,000
    Estimated Avg.: 101,000

    December
    10: 83,000
    11: 106,000
    12: 98,000
    Avg.: 96,000

    January
    13: 147,000
    14: <85,000
    15: 133,000
    16: 106,000
    Estimated Avg.: 118,000



    Also worth adding the American rating we missed out from last week as AEW was back down to 828,000. NXT also fell so rather than losing fans to the other side it appears as if there were just about 120,000 fewer people watching wrestling this Wednesday.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  12. #772
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    I feel like I've read that the crossover audience is less than you might expect and a lot of the viewers are unique to either AEW or NXT.

  13. #773
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    It's been a while since I saw anything on that but the last I heard AEW viewers might flip over during the breaks, but that NXT viewers tended to ignore AEW altogether.

    I guess if that's solidifying on both sides it wouldn't be completely unexpected.

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  14. #774
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    Ahead of the first rating of a new month, here's the average for each month so far. Reflects that rebound in the first couple of weeks of the new year.

    October Average: 1.1 million
    November Average: 833,000
    December Average: 771,000
    January: 911,000

    Also read that the seven-day rating average is 1.2 million, which I think is about where most of us (other than anyone who was overly optimistic) would have guessed they were at. But still, there's some confirmation for what we were guessing.

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  15. #775
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    Sign of the times, I'd wager, that they get a full 33% boost from those watching after the fact. I'd guess that's only going to keep going up, for AEW and for TV in general.

    Really enjoyed Dynamite. The 10 lashes stuff turned out to be incredibly compelling, the Moxley/Jericho feud is a pure pleasure, and you've got some very fun matches mixed in with meaty character development. Loved how more and more people kept coming out for the lashes, having so many meaningful character connections established is a real strength for them.

  16. #776
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    Well, if people agree with you it could be a good thing, because they had more eyes on them this week. Up to 928k.

    NXT also up, so the overall audience for this past Wednesday was around 1.7m.

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  17. #777
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    Seems like things have more or less stabilized in the ratings, at least for the past several weeks. Hoping to see Dynamite continue to make gradual gains and build on that loyal audience they already have. It helps that they seem to really try to listen to the fans, as evidenced by the (hopeful) demise of the Nightmare Collective and the further attempts to hit the right balance between matches and story/character stuff, which has already improved a lot from the first couple episodes.

  18. #778
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    Updated for this last week.

    October
    1: <191,100
    2: 96,000
    3: 143,000
    4: 170,689 – ranked 12th (revised down from 10th)

    November
    5: 77,000
    6: 140,000
    7: < 81,000 (post-Full Gear)
    8: 86,000
    9: 120,000
    Estimated Avg.: 101,000

    December
    10: 83,000
    11: 106,000
    12: 98,000
    Avg.: 96,000

    January
    13: 147,000
    14: <85,000
    15: 133,000
    16: 106,000
    Estimated Avg.: 118,000

    February
    17: 111,000

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  19. #779
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    Brandi said that the Nightmare Collective failed, in part, because they didn't have the "time" to explain it. The time.

    Cut any one of those overlong two segment women's or tag matches in half, and put the time into explaining your shit. Don't do it in Twitter vignettes, don't do it on BTE or whatever other YouTube vlog your wrestlers have. Explain it on the show by cutting time from overlong, often cold, matches to put into advancing angles.

  20. #780
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    I am going to make a prediction here. I think the Young Bucks are going to win the tag Team Battle Royal to face Page and Omega. This is to further the story of how Page feels separate from the Elite. I can see Omega and Page having a miscue leading to the Bucks winning the tag titles, only for it to lead to Page turning on Omega as AEW has been teasing for a few weeks now.

  21. #781
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    That definitely feels like the most PPV-worthy tag title match they can put together at the moment, and they've been teasing it already so I think that's a pretty fair guess. I was looking over the roster and I was impressed by how many tag teams they actually have, but it does feel like the Bucks are the right choice for the story they've been telling.

    I also wonder if Page's recent surge in popularity will make them change gears on what I have to assume was an originally planned heel turn for him... he's actually never been more over as a face in AEW than he is right now. The idea of Omega being the one to turn and become the "Exalted One" with the Dark Order might be appealing, or just to see him go off on his own. It's not like his face character has been lighting the world on fire so far. If Page beats Omega in their upcoming match, even after everything Omega has done to put himself back on track, could push him over the edge. It'd have the element of surprise but also actually fit pretty nicely with where each guy is right now. Though on the Dark Order thing, I'm starting to think it'll be Christopher Daniels who ends up as the "Exalted One". Not sure how I feel about that, I'll have to wait and see if they go that way.

    I thought last night's episode of Dynamite was one of the best they've done so far. Every match was either good or great and they all served a larger purpose, and what's more they all felt distinct. Top notch women's match, MJF baiting Brandi, Dustin calling out Hager, a fast paced tag title match, and Moxley fighting blind at the end of the main event were all big highlights for me.

    EDIT: Oh, and I'm with Coach that they would have done themselves a big favor if they had trimmed those long matches that filled the earliest episodes a bit too much and spent more time establishing characters. They seem to be hitting a much better balance now and it's making for some really fun TV.
    Last edited by mizfan; 02-13-2020 at 04:46 PM.

  22. #782
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    This is what I posted in the Matt Hardy Thread....seemed appropriate to your points...

    So on AEW last night, JR referred to the Young Bucks as the 'Bucks of Youth', and it did not go unnoticed by Hardy, who used to call them that. Then both Hardy and JR took to twitter implying that they will be seeing each other soon. Now this could all be conjecture, but there is now even more speculation that Hardy will be revealed as the 'Exalted One', leader of the Dark Order, and JR's comment was deliberate foreshadowing.

    JR referred to The Young Bucks as “The Bucks of Youth” on commentary, which is a well-known name from Matt. Dave Meltzer speculated on the name-drop during Wrestling Observer Radio and said the mention could have something to do with Hardy, who has been rumored to be revealed as the leader of The Dark Order after he’s done with WWE. Ross used the name during a segment that saw The Bucks make the save for SCU as they were being attacked by The Dark Order.

    Fans noted on Twitter that they believed this name-drop had to do with Hardy, possibly as an “Easter Egg” of some kind. Matt responded to a fan comment on how JR used the “Bucks of Youth” name.

    Matt wrote, “He did? Nothing’s sacred anymore. In all seriousness, I wouldn’t be who I am today without @JRsBBQ’s assistance. JR always has my blessing to use the term ‘Bucks Of Youth.'”

    JR responded to Matt’s tweet this morning and said he hopes their paths cross again soon.

    “Thanks Matthew! Hope our paths cross again sooner than later,” Ross wrote back.

  23. #783
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    Teasing it makes sense, especially since I believe Matt Hardy is good friends with the Young Bucks. I'm hesitant to see him show up in AEW though. 3 years ago he was HOT HOT HOT but now there really isn't any fan interest in him that I can tell, and he's got three more years of wear and tear on a beat up body. Plus there are always fans ready to complain if anyone from WWE is brought on board. Then again, I've always liked Matt, and he had very little support when he came back to TNA in 2014 and look what he did with that opportunity. I guess that's another "wait and see" situation, I could see it working out well or I could see it falling flat.

  24. #784
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    Lowest rating of the year so far for AEW, shedding about 110k for 817,000.

    Fairly standard for NXT at 757,000, though obviously they are still settled in to finishing second (with all the asterisks about the Network, etc)

    Overall of 1,570,000-ish.

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  25. #785
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    Shame that one of their best episodes saw a bit of a dip in viewership, but hopefully good word of mouth will help them rebound and more next week!

  26. #786
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    Eric Bischoff had a good take on that last week, which I actually hadn't thought about for some reason.

    This week's rating has nothing to do with this week's show, it's all about last week's show. If last week's show didn't connect for some reason, people are less likely to tune in this week regardless of what you advertise in advance (unless it's something like a random appearance by The Rock or something).

    Ratings tend to drop significantly when you start stringing together shows that don't connect (WCW 2000), and you have to string together that many more that do just to get them to start ticking upward because it's a lot harder to bring back people who switched it off.

    I haven't seen this week's show, but if it was good then I'll bet that next week's ratings are up.

  27. #787
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    I don't read too much into them, the way that they have been coming in. All I'd really take away is that any upward trend we saw earlier in this year is likely going to have the same ceiling that they had last year - that it's really just within the usual range rather than part of a clear upward trajectory.

    Of course, that can change quite quickly, but right now, it feels like that's what it suggests.

    Given that I heard overwhelmingly positive things about the whipping, perhaps looking at what else was on the show (and might not have connected) would be beneficial.

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  28. #788
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    I only watched the whipping, if we're being honest. I loved it, it appeals exactly to what I like in wrestling.

    BUT, maybe Jim Cornette's review of the show can offer some insight. Because he basically said that it was schizophrenic. It kept swinging wildly from angles and people and style that he loves, to the exact opposite from one segment to the next.

    Perhaps the people to whom the old school stuff like the whipping angle and Mox/Jericho really, really appeals aren't into some of the more "modern indy" stuff on the show.

  29. #789
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    Hadn't heard that review but sounds exactly like the early impressions I got from seeing bits and pieces when I decided not to watch. That you'd have to be in-and-out as you watched, and if you are like me and the kind of fan that wants to follow a product rather than cherry picking, then it'd probably end up annoying you more than it hit the right note.

    I always assumed fans of that type weren't part of the AEW million anymore, but maybe that slight surge in early January was some people giving them another shot...

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  30. #790
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    I would think variety would be a positive, but if people are finding the shift in tone too extreme I could see it being something to address as they continue to shape their identity.

  31. #791
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    One of the things I always said was that I had no problem with variety but that the majority of the programmes had to clear a certain threshold. If enough people shared the perspective that it's not simply a tonal shift, but one of quality, then it'd explain why variety as currently offered was more of a negative than the positive it might initially appear to be.

    As for things to address in future, I guess the trick is in adjustment before too many people turn away or decide that they won't come back again.

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  32. #792
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    A wrestling show needs a variety. But what strikes a chord in that variety will differ. AEW is certainly unique as a mainstream promotion and the variety they offer. It just has a higher percentage of what I don't care for.

    Which is too bad, because there's a great portion of every Dynamite and PPV. But I struggle to get through the parts I don't care for to get to it. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but my guess is AEW will evolve and grow. Hopefully it grows into a style I enjoy.

  33. #793
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    To each their own!

    Really looking forward to Cody vs. Wardlow, both to finally see what Wardlow can do in the ring and to see how they play off the lashes and into the impending blowoff.

  34. #794
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    To each their own indeed, though I will say that if you've got a wrestling show that fans are finding it hard to sit through to get to the bits that they like, then I think that's a problem in itself. Variety is great and people will like what they like, but that's all got to be within the frame of expanding the audience, not limiting it. I guess like the Hippocratic oath the rule where it comes to bringing in those other areas should be 'first, do no harm'.

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  35. #795
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    What amazes me, is how Cody is booking his feud with MJF with a distinctive old school feel to it, yet the rest of the show is not.

    With Cody obviously studying his Dad's playbook, and now having Arn, why can't they have more input into the rest of the cards and shows? Cody vs MJF is amazing story telling, but the rest is kind of ho hum. Jericho vs Moxley is not pretty good to, to be fair.

  36. #796
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    British ratings in for the second week of February - still hovering around the 100,000 mark but just under it this time around.

    October
    1: <191,100
    2: 96,000
    3: 143,000
    4: 170,689 – ranked 12th (revised down from 10th)

    November
    5: 77,000
    6: 140,000
    7: < 81,000 (post-Full Gear)
    8: 86,000
    9: 120,000
    Estimated Avg.: 101,000

    December
    10: 83,000
    11: 106,000
    12: 98,000
    Avg.: 96,000

    January
    13: 147,000
    14: <85,000
    15: 133,000
    16: 106,000
    Estimated Avg.: 118,000

    February
    17: 111,000
    18: 97,000


    Ranked 32nd on the channel this time, and intriguingly an almost exact split between live and OD viewers. Pretty unusual for AEW which tends to pick up it's viewers later.

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  37. #797
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    Cody/MJF is definitely the company standard (at the very least) for great storytelling, but I think they've done a really good job with Jericho/Mox and the various Inner Circle feuds that are swirling around right now. The Darby Allin videos where he can't speak because his throat was crushed are top notch so far, as is Dustin looking to get revenge on the Inner Circle members that broke his arm. They've done a good job developing Adam Page lately too, which was a real problem for them for a while. The tag and women's divisions have some catch up to do when it comes to booking but they've had some positives as well, and I've heard that Tony Khan has taken a more active role to make the creative direction a little more aligned, which I assume is one reason they recently cut the Nightmare Collective.

  38. #798
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    I think AEW will benefit greatly from one main conduit when it comes to creative instead of letting different people run their own stuff. A lot of the Dynamite shows felt wildly different from one segment to the next, and they've been less so these days. I hope they can keep that going.

    One thing that AEW's completely nailing, especially in recent weeks, are their vignettes. The PAC ones have been outstanding. Darby Allin's have been great too and I'm happy they're doing this angle instead of bringing him back too quickly to the mix.

  39. #799
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    Absolutely. I think it shows how they take on feedback well, I remember the first few episodes were almost wall to wall ring stuff with one promo thrown in (also in the ring). Shifting the balance to include these really good vignettes has been a big positive.

  40. #800
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    Both shows were up a little in the ratings this week. 893,000 for AEW vs 794,000 for NXT. Not really much to make of it I'd say, though obviously both sides will be glad there's a few more eyes on them this time out.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

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