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  1. #721
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    One of the complaints I hear is that they already have matches and segments that simply refuse to end, and go on far too long. If people are already saying that, and if their are already question marks about the depth of the roster when people are taking up more time than is ideal... well, I'm sure you can leap ahead and see the question that's forming in my head.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  2. #722
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    I'm hoping it's an opportunity to include more promo/character segments, rather than push more and more and more matches. Although it's not like there aren't people who could use more time in the ring! We've talked about how often Riho is missing for example, and a guy like MJF has really only had a couple matches since AEW debuted. And I want to see more of CIMA on my TV! So I think there are multiple opportunities, and I hope it's not a case of stretching too far. They might also be able to sign some more people on with the new TV money, so who knows who we might see?

  3. #723
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Promos and the like are certainly what they could do with expanding into, although this is the literally the first time I think I've seen anyone see that anyone needs more time in the ring. From what I gather almost everyone spends so much time in one match that all but the most dedicated see enough of them to last a year in a single outing.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  4. #724
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    And I'm sure that's not hyperbole at all there, Pete!

    How about this, if we see more matches I'd also like them to be a bit shorter. I do know what you're getting at and I do think there's an issue in AEW with matches going longer than they need to. But if you look at the MJF example, he only had 5 matches across all AEW programming in 2019. So I'm not saying he needs to go out and have a 25 minute match weekly, but a few more 5 to 10 minute matches sprinkled in would be good both to further establish him as a worker and give him further experience in front of a big crowd.

  5. #725
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I reserve the right to use poetic licence to make a point!

    Yeah, I think the formulation you've hit in the second half is the closer to the right way around. To be honest, that could be very JCP in the late 1980s....

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  6. #726
    Puerto Rican dude living in Japan Degenerate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizfan View Post
    And I want to see more of CIMA on my TV!
    Yeah, what happened with the OWE guys? I'd love to see Strong Hearts on TV on a regular basis.

  7. #727
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizfan View Post
    And I want to see more of CIMA on my TV!
    Quote Originally Posted by Degenerate View Post
    Yeah, what happened with the OWE guys? I'd love to see Strong Hearts on TV on a regular basis.
    MLW. CIMA has a title shot on Feb 11, and they had a 6 man tag with on a recent Fusion.

  8. #728
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Guess I'll put the men's rankings in here, as I put the women's in their thread.

    1. Mox
    2. Cody
    3. Kenny Omega
    4. Pac
    5. Sammy Guevara


    I guess only the last is any surprise, and might only surprise those of us at a distance.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  9. #729
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    How is Cody ranked in any way since he cannot ever challenge for the AEW World Championship ever again? Why rank him if he cannot be in the title scene?

  10. #730
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Don't ask me, I didn't make the decision!

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  11. #731
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    I know they addressed it online at some point, I forget what exactly was said. Something to the effect that since his wins still count in the record books he'll still appear in the rankings. I could see it being a tool they use if a midcard title is introduced, or maybe as part of the eventual argument to overturn the stipulation.

    I'll do my own rankings here as well, since I did in the women's thread. Again, there's a whole formula but the most important part is a direct loss (being pinned or submitted) takes you off the list entirely until you get some wins back. The caveat here is I do try not to count stuff that is clearly intended for the tag division. Anyway, let's see...

    5. Luchasaurus

    Activity since last direct loss:
    -defeated Sammy Guevara in a singles match
    -defeated Peter Avalon in a singles match
    -multiple eliminations in Casino Battle Royal

    4. Fenix

    Activity since last direct loss:
    -defeated Nick Jackson in a singles match
    -defeated Trent in a singles match

    3. Cody Rhodes

    Activity since last direct loss:
    -defeated Darby Allin in a singles match
    -pinned Pepper Parks in a tag match
    -defeated a local jobber in a singles match
    -non-pinfall loss in a tag match

    2. MJF

    Activity since last direct loss:
    -defeated Adam Page in a singles match
    -co-winner of the Dynamite Dozen Battle Royal
    -defeated Brandon Cutler in a singles match
    -pinned QT Marshall in a six man tag
    -winning side in another six man tag
    -multiple eliminations in the Casino Battle Royal
    -non-pinfall loss in a four way match

    1. Jon Moxley

    Activity since last direct loss:
    -defeated Darby Allin in a singles match
    -defeated Sammy Guevara in a singles match
    -defeated Joey Janela in a singles match,
    -defeated Shawn Spears in a singles match,
    -defeated Trent in a singles match
    -defeated Michael Nakazawa in a singles match
    -defeated a local jobber in a singles match
    -time limit draw with PAC
    -non-pinfall loss in a tag match


    Another benefit to my method is you don't have to reset each year, as each guy gets reset individually if they take a loss. Like, MJF basically did nothing but win except for one four way match where he wasn't involved in the decision, but he doesn't get mentioned for title stuff (also because he's a heel I guess, but you see what I'm getting at).

  12. #732
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    How is Cody ranked in any way since he cannot ever challenge for the AEW World Championship ever again? Why rank him if he cannot be in the title scene?
    I don't know the official AEW reason, but often in UFC you'll see a contender who has had several title shots and lost them, but still be in the top 5. That said, when possible contenders are discussed, Dana White will say said failed challenger won't get the next shot even though he's in the top 5 without some big wins, or a new champion is crowned.

  13. #733
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    British rating update - and they are way down, to the point where I can't explain why they keep going up and down all over the place. From one of their best ratings to completely unranked. But maybe everyone caught the short show, who is to say. That's certainly what an optimist would say, anyway.

    October
    1: <191,100
    2: 96,000
    3: 143,000
    4: 170,689 – ranked 12th (revised down from 10th)

    November
    5: 77,000
    6: 140,000
    7: < 81,000 (post-Full Gear)
    8: 86,000
    9: 120,000

    December
    10: 83,000
    11: 106,000
    12: 98,000

    January
    13: 147,000
    14: <85,000


    Films that beat Dynamite this week include Nevada Smith, The Untouchables, and Police Academy 4.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  14. #734
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    Police Academy 4 feels like a punchline.

  15. #735
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Indeed it does. Perfectly true, though.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  16. #736
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    I want to watch those now, see if they are as bad as their reputation.

  17. #737
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    PA3-6 are all terrible.

  18. #738
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    From this I infer you think 7 is a masterpiece.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  19. #739
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    As are 1 and 2?

    Though honestly, if they made enough money to push to 7 movies, there's gotta be something of value. I'm the horror guy, and have owned maybe 5 versions of each Friday the 13th and Nightmare on Elm Street (VHS recordings off TV, then purchased VHS individuals, then a VHS boxed set, then the DVD boxed set, then individuals after my F13 set was "borrowed" by a friend and never returned, then the blu ray boxed set, found the DVD boxed set used for $10....etc.). I don't expect anyone reading this to find value in all 12 Friday movies, but I do. So Police Academy must have enough fans somewhere.

    Besides, the guy with the voices and SFX entertains everybody I know.

  20. #740
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I haven't watched them since I was a kid, but I remember liking them then. If you share my dumb sense of humour you'll probably get a kick out of them.

    But yeah, it seems as if more people in the UK wanted to watch the repeat of the fourth movie (and the fifth one, for that matter) than wanted to watch the full version of Dynamite that week, which is either a testament to the creators of Police Academy or a red flag to AEW. I'll leave everyone to make their own mind up as to which it is.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  21. #741
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    I forgot all about Mission to Moscow. Equally as dumb.

    BUT 1 and 2 are really good comedy movies form the 80s. 1 is amazing, as it spoofs cops and robbers movies as well as the Police Academy in the way that Stripes spoofed the Army. 2 was a very effective sequel.

    Ok to be fair. 3 and 4 are not thaaatt bad. But once Guttenberg left with 5-7 oof.

  22. #742
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    I think the idea is to put a version of Dark on as the second show. I was also very cautious when I saw that 'second show' line in the press release but seems it will just be what they are already doing.

    Honestly I'd like to see a lot more of their BTE character stuff somewhere, obviously not all the humor translates to prime time production but some of the stuff with Hangman has really added to the story he is going through, particularly his little segment with his old trainer last week.

  23. #743
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    They need to do something as you're describing, SirSam, in my opinion. Too many of these people are just faceless CAWs flipbots. I acknowledge with almost every one of my AEW critical posts that I am likely older than the target demo, or that they aren't aiming to my tastes at all. But it's just incredible how much blandness (in character and in the ring) they have that over shadows the strengths they display.

  24. #744
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Even from the people who are positive about the show, most of what I hear suggests it's all a bit thin - even the better stuff. Granted, that could be because I've muted a ridiculous number of wrestling accounts lately. But some of the stuff that I've seen people praise has even been talking about it in quite a cold, clinical way. Much more analytical than any real investment.

    Getting to know people could be a way around that. Like most people I went into the weekend's UFC expecting McGregor to win, and honestly wasn't that into it... until I saw that sit down interview with Cerrone going into it. It didn't change my expectations about the result, but getting to know more about the guy, hearing him talk about the fight and what it meant, where he was at, all that jazz... that really took me to a whole other level of interest.

    I reckon they could do a lot worse than devote a segment a week to a lengthy piece that really introduces fans to talent on a deeper level to help flesh them out so that they are people, rather than wrestling characters and guys filling stock roles. With Ross on the roster you've got someone very practised if you did want to go the 'sit-down' route, too.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  25. #745
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    Yup, the characters they've developed well have a big edge right now over those they haven't. That's why Cody now looks like a megastar and Omega is lagging behind, compared to the more workrate centered environment of New Japan. The more character stuff they invest in, the better off they'll be long term.

  26. #746
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    It was quite different to the BTE buts but if they wanted a more serious tone then the segments they did for Cody and Jungle Boy of them training and with guest interviews were great. If I remember rightly they did a spoof one for Jericho too that was hilarious.

  27. #747
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    If you mean the one with Jericho's mom's friend from church predicting victory for him, that was amazing and I'd love to see a follow up. Perhaps in the Jericho/Mox feud?

  28. #748
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    I'm very pumped for the PAC v Moxley match both of them are such badasses and PAC cut an absolute killer promo on the Road To video. I forsee Mox winning somehow because that is where the feud is going but boy PAC is the complete package and could be a great long term adversary for someone when his time comes.

    Im interested to see how the set will look, apparently they will be docked when they film it so my dream of someone getting thrown off the boat aren't realistic but I'm sire some crazy boat related hijinks will happen.

  29. #749
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    I loved the Mox/PAC time limit draw from last year and I don't doubt they can top it here! And I love episodes filmed in unique venues, so looking forward to seeing what it all looks like.

    Also saw the video of Moxley singing "Sweet Caroline" during the cruise. Holy shit he's a bad singer but I don't know if it's possible to do a version of that song that isn't affecting!

  30. #750
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Aew down around 7%, with around 871k from what I've seen.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  31. #751
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    British ratings in - remember I said they were rebounding around all over the place and refusing to settle down? Yeah, they are back up again. So who the hell knows what to make of it all?!

    October
    1: <191,100
    2: 96,000
    3: 143,000
    4: 170,689 – ranked 12th (revised down from 10th)

    November
    5: 77,000
    6: 140,000
    7: < 81,000 (post-Full Gear)
    8: 86,000
    9: 120,000

    December
    10: 83,000
    11: 106,000
    12: 98,000

    January
    13: 147,000
    14: <85,000
    15: 133,000

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  32. #752
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    Could it be an error? That inconsistency is very very odd.

  33. #753
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    It could, because there's no way to verify it. But these are coming from sources who provide professional services to the industry as well as this little bit of free info, so I'm inclined to think they are going to be reasonably accurate until I've got a good reason not to trust them. If it were just some random wrestling website, then yeah, I'm not sure I'd trust these figures - but these places have their professional rep at stake in the data they put out.

    Personally, I think the presence of the shorter show on ITV1 is probably the most likely to blame. When the numbers are so small, it only takes a few thousand people to watch that - or to shift to watching it on FITE, or to source it by some other means, to make a pretty sizeable difference to the audience. Whenever it goes really low, my bet is more people have watched the highlights show instead, or found it another way.

    The other thing is that this show is on a Friday night. Ratings might be up on the odd weeks here because it's January and Brits famously go out a lot less in the month after Christmas and New Year. If they don't hold up in the coming weeks then the odds are it was a temporary seasonal spike and people are back out on the lash rather than watching.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  34. #754
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    Obviously PAC is the difference maker in the UK since he main evented the first and third episodes in January but not the second!

    (Ok probably not but it is super weird!)

  35. #755
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    Y'know, at the time we put the highest-rated show's achievement down to Cody chasing Jericho around the arena... but now I think about it, PAC was in the main event that week against Moxley, too! We officially have a pattern!

    But yeah, for the record I don't think it's that either.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  36. #756
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    Looking forward to them running a show in the UK and PAC gets a Davey Boy '92 reception to prove us wrong!

  37. #757
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    If AEW can put 80,000 in Wembley for that, then you know, that'd be the kind of statement that would make me shut up about their popularity - regardless of who they use to fill those seats!

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  38. #758
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    When PAC and Orange Cassidy draw that house, try not to break down Pete!

  39. #759
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    The horror...

    In all seriousness, wouldn't break down because I'm past caring, but even when I did think there might be half a chance of a pivot and a meaningful for me return.... I mean, even then I would have just said that they'd finally proven that it could do it. And then promptly never offered another opinion on contemporary wrestling again!

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  40. #760
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    If AEW can put 80,000 in Wembley for that, then you know, that'd be the kind of statement that would make me shut up about their popularity - regardless of who they use to fill those seats!
    Do it at St James', surely? Hometown boy PAC vs Le Champion (whoever that may be at the time).

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