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  1. #1
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    The Surprisingly Not Awful Baron Corbin Thread

    As the name suggests, Baron Corbin went from a nothing special about him, balding tall wrestler, who was going nowhere, but Vince loved him because of his size, to a completely reinvented character on RAW. Corbin went from a relative failure to one of the main players on the Flagship show.

    Cutting his hair and changing his clothes has done wonders for him, and he is surprisingly NOT Awful. Now that doesn't mean that I think he is great, but just NOT awful. I think he has a long way to go before giving him a Universal Title run, but the role he has been playing lately has worked for him, even with his lsow drawl on the mic. He can speak, and can jab back and forth with ease, just his speaking style seems weird and forced. Relax and go with it, Corbin.

    What I want to see happen with him as a character is for Corbin to lose the General Manager role and to begin a good, long feud with someone where both guys can shine. Elias is right there, or even a Strowman feud where Corbin holds his own, and is NOT a chicken sh!t heel. You could even wait until after Mania and allow Corbin to step up and be the first challenger to Rollins, but allow Corbin to look good in the process.

    Or the other option, of having Corbin turn face and have him feud with Dolph Ziggler or Drew McIntyre. Ziggler is perfect as he will put Corbin over and then McIntyre needs opponents.

    You could even wait for Kevin Owens to return and have the two of them feud upon his return.

    BUT whatever the WWE does with Corbin, there is ONE thing that MUST happen. The guy DESPERATELY NEEDS NEW THEME MUSIC!
    Last edited by Powder; 12-11-2018 at 09:22 AM.

  2. #2
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    TL;DR

    Cause the thread title is incorrect. Corbin is still awful.

  3. #3
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    TL;DR???

    Be fair, he is NOT awful, and he is NOT that bad.

    I would rather watch Corbin all day long, than ever see Bobby Lashley or Lio Rush ever again. Those two are the reason you change the channel.
    Last edited by Powder; 12-11-2018 at 09:42 AM.

  4. #4
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I haven't seen enough of him to comment really. But based on the reactions I've seen out there you're going to have to do a lot more than repeatedly capitalise not to get people to change their mind.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  5. #5
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    I only capitalized the fact that he needs new theme music, everything else was my opinion on why is is not awful, and projections on what could be his future.

  6. #6
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    I only capitalized the fact that he needs new theme music,
    You sure?

    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    Cutting his hair and changing his clothes has done wonders for him, and he is surprisingly NOT Awful. Now that doesn't mean that I think he is great, but just NOT awful.

    Elias is right there, or even a Strowman feud where Corbin holds his own, and is NOT a chicken sh!t heel.
    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    Be fair, he is NOT awful, and he is NOT that bad.
    Yeah, looks like you're repeatedly capitalising 'not' to me. Helps if you actually read what people say.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  7. #7
    As it should be. Macho Mourn's Avatar
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    He had/has promise but he hasn't evolved in ring and his delivery of written lines is worse than Reigns.

    “How great the tremors will be when the judge comes."

  8. #8
    Lamb of LOP anonymous's Avatar
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    He’s still better than Brock so I’d give him the title in a heartbeat. He’s not too dreadful and he’s no worse than most big men are early in their careers. He’s entertaining on the mic and gets heat. Contrary to what Rollins said, I think he’s very watchable.

  9. #9
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    Good write up Powder I would agree that changing his character has been a good idea, gives him a nice fresh feeling and gets him away from being the guy that lost MITB and got squashed by John Cena all in one week.

    I think the general manager role is a good fit and I wouldn’t mind it continuing however he still has a long way to go. I would like to see him involved in a midcard feud over the IC title. I think he could actually be quite a good custodian of it for a while fighting off the likes of Elias, Balor or even a face Apollo.

  10. #10
    Glad to see the back of him personally

  11. #11
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Part of me wonders if this thread alone is the proof of how difficult it is to run a wrestling company anymore. No one is talking about whether they like him or not, everyone is talking about whether he is entertaining or awful.

    Whereas in the past you used to hate the guy you didn't like and want them to get beat up, now you just want them to go away. And of course, it's safe to say that the people who do like him probably have a completely different conception of what they want the show to look like.

    Just interesting to think that a thread for Baron Corbin of all people could be a microcosm for the wider world of pro wrestling in 2019.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  12. #12
    I would probably have loved the guy back in 2000. Times change though.

  13. #13
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    So I saw that there's chatter about pulling the Corbin/Angle match due to negative backlash, because they don't want Kurt's final bout to be on a downer?

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

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    That will happen, and since Cena is still not scheduled, it will most likely be Angle vs Cena.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    So I saw that there's chatter about pulling the Corbin/Angle match due to negative backlash, because they don't want Kurt's final bout to be on a downer?
    I feel its a bit of work because how could they not know their would be negative reaction? Lol zero people pop for Corbin. So obviously people aren't going to want to see that match.

  16. #16
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    With Mania only 2 weeks away, I can see Cena coming back tonight and challenging Corbin for his shot at Angle. All reports are that the fans hate the idea of Corbin, and backstage rumors are confirming that Corbin/Angle is not a loved idea.

  17. #17
    Super Moderator Team Farrell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    Part of me wonders if this thread alone is the proof of how difficult it is to run a wrestling company anymore. No one is talking about whether they like him or not, everyone is talking about whether he is entertaining or awful.

    Whereas in the past you used to hate the guy you didn't like and want them to get beat up, now you just want them to go away. And of course, it's safe to say that the people who do like him probably have a completely different conception of what they want the show to look like.

    Just interesting to think that a thread for Baron Corbin of all people could be a microcosm for the wider world of pro wrestling in 2019.
    I missed this two months ago, but this is a million per cent spot on.

    There's this belief in pro wrestling fan circles that everyone, heels and faces, should be going out there to put a big smile on your face and get a hearty belly laugh. As though pro wrestling is a comedy show.

    When The Midnight Express had to be escorted out of buildings by police, it wasn't because fans were so very entertained by them and got a great chuckle out of their heel antics. It was because these guys were pricks and they wanted them dead. People today would want the Midights to "go away".

    Maybe it means that people want me to "go away" or aren't "entertained" by me, but I took pride in the fact that I riled a guy up so bad he took a swing at me Friday. In my mind, that's heat, not getting people to boo because they know you're the bad guy and they're in on the joke and just having fun.

  18. #18
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    I disagree. Look to Bubba Ray in ECW. He was loathed in ECW so much that he nearly caused riots in Philly, yet no one wanted him to go away, they waned someone to come out and shut him up.

    There are those heels in the business that people love to hate, jut look at Daniel Bryan right now. His promos are condescending, insulting, and make you want to hate him, and everyone knows that while his gimmick is seated in reality, he is playing a part. Also look at Heyman, he gets you to absolutely hate Lesnar, and all you want from those two is for anyone to come and shut them up. Thus they are doing their job as heels. They make you want to hate them but you'd rather see someone punch them in their faces.

    Corbin is not one of those types of heels. He cannot play the part. He does not make you want to hate him, he makes you want him off your TV screen. Elias plays the part well. Elias does everything you should do to make one hate him. He insults you, your town, your sports team etc. Corbin comes off as the entitled kid that was given the keys to his father's Porche, then crashes it, and gets another brand new Porsche as a result. A kid that you want to say "just go away" and not have to deal with, rather than see him get beat up.

    Yes we are in an age where most of the fans know all about the backstage, the kayfabe, and the real life behind the performers, but the good ones can still make you believe and love or hate them.

    For me, Charlotte is the epitome of the get off my screen and go away.

    Heels can still make you hate them, but it cannot be the same way that it was done 30 years ago. Remember that a good heel not only makes you hate them, but also makes his opposing babyface look good at the same time. You cannot be a good heel if you do not give credit to your opposition. Corbin just comes out and screws over the faces, but never gives them any credit.
    Last edited by Powder; 03-25-2019 at 11:16 AM.

  19. #19
    Super Moderator Team Farrell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    I disagree. Look to Bubba Ray in ECW. He was loathed in ECW so much that he nearly caused riots in Philly, yet no one wanted him to go away, they waned someone to come out and shut him up.
    That was also 20+ years ago. Fans back then showed up because they didn't mind hating guys and wanted to tell them to fuck off. This has been something that's happened in the last decade or less.

    There are those heels in the business that people love to hate, jut look at Daniel Bryan right now.
    It's that "love to hate" statement that I think is the very core of the problem, though. There was a time where you just hated guys.

    Corbin is not one of those types of heels. He cannot play the part. He does not make you want to hate him, he makes you want him off your TV screen. Elias plays the part well. Elias does everything you should do to make one hate him. He insults you, your town, your sports team etc. Corbin comes off as the entitled kid that was given the keys to his father's Porche, then crashes it, and gets another brand new Porsche as a result. A kid that you want to say "just go away" and not have to deal with, rather than see him get beat up.
    But that's exactly the type of guy you'd want to see get beaten up. The problem is, people have decided that he's boring or can't work or take your pick so they want him to "go away". Everyone wants heels to be "cool" heels that they don't hate, instead they "like to hate". People want to be in on the joke. It's a part of that "wrestling should be fun" outlook that makes the Dickplex a thing. Nobody wants a heel to offend them, make them legitimately angry and make them want to see that guy bleed. Fans, in general, want it to be fun, not real. And it's to the detriment of the business.

    You cannot be a good heel if you do not give credit to your opposition.
    This is some really simplistic stuff that's not true at all and so many wrestlers believe. Somewhere, someone said that you have to put your opponent over in your promos and what you do in the ring. That's not true, you have to not bury them, but that's not the same as giving them credit or putting them over. If I say you're a piece of shit who has no business being in the ring with me, and I lose to you I've just lost to a piece of shit who had no business being in the ring with me. But I don't have to put over your skill and ability. That's a really simplified view that people have put out there to explain things as easily as possible. It's like saying that the format of match you're taught in training is the only correct format.

    Yes, I'm going to sell your shit in the ring and try to make you look as good as possible, because I trust that you are going to do the same for me. But it's not my job to make the guy I'm working with look like a star.

    Corbin also doesn't really control that he comes out and is always put in an advantageous position.

    EDIT: For the record, I am not in love with the idea of Kurt vs Corbin at Mania. I understand the idea of wanting to use Angle's star power to put over a younger, newer face at WrestleMania instead of going to the well of Cena or a legend, but at the same time when you're announcing in advance that it's Kurt's last match I think they should have gone with someone from his past like Cena.

    I'm not sure what the answer there is. Neither one is perfect, and I think they went with the one that's better for future business, but the Kurt Angle fan in me would love to see something different. It's really a shame that most of the people he had some of his best and most memorable matches and moments with are either dead, not with the company anymore or long since retired. If the ywere going to seriously get behind Shelton Benjamin at any point. Kurt vs Benjamin at Mania would have a nice bookend feel.

  20. #20
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    There was a time where you just hated guys.
    This all falls to the fact that the interwebs destroyed kayfabe, and now Vince pulls back his own curtain with all his behind the scenes specials (365, 24, Chronicle etc) Total Divas. and Miz and Mrs. All those shows coupled with the internet have destroyed kayfabe and the fans all know it. When I was a kid in the 1980s kayfabe was still intact, so I hated all the heels. I remember watching Mickey and Maude (a horrible 80s Movie) that had pro wrestlers in it including Andre and Studd, and I rented it from a video store distinctly to find out their real names in the credits. But Kayfabe was still intact.

    Now you can't "hate" the heels because we all know they are playing a part. It's like hating any actor who is the villain in any movie. We know that Bryan is one of the nicest guys on the roster, but he is playing the role of a complete dick. That is the problem.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post

    Now you can't "hate" the heels because we all know they are playing a part. It's like hating any actor who is the villain in any movie. We know that Bryan is one of the nicest guys on the roster, but he is playing the role of a complete dick. That is the problem.
    It isn't though. I hate Biff Tannen, I don't hate the guy that played him. When I'm watching a movie, a good one at least, I shouldn't be thinking about the actor. There's no reason why wrestling should be any different. I shouldn't be thinking "Kevin Owens is sure portraying a heel in an interesting fashion" I should be thinking he's a piece of shit and wanting the hero to stomp him.

    Like, I loved Alan Rickman in Die Hard, but I was glad John McClane threw Hans Gruber out a Window. We should be able to enjoy a performer and still hate the character he's playing. I think for a lot of fans now the performance is all that matters. That's not entirely the fans fault, WWE definitely has blame because they routinely fail to present interesting stories/characters. So perhaps there's an element of the fans just trying to find SOMETHING to enjoy.

  22. #22
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Chop View Post
    There's no reason why wrestling should be any different.
    Have to agree to disagree on that. As far as I'm concerned wrestling was different for most of its history, and that's what made it special. To me if you abandon that, it's really stopped being wrestling.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

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    I just think times are different and the old way of doing things just don't work. Sometimes they do work and I'm not saying that Corbin isn't doing the job that he was asked to do while doing it pretty effectively. He is exactly what they want especially in that heel authority type figure.

    However, I don't like the guy doesn't = I want to see him get beat up partially because as much as I try to invest in the product, there's so much weird logic in the stories that most times, it takes me right out of being invested. So if i'm not invested in the story (like I was/have been for Kofi) then I want something I will enjoy or at the very least not think is stupid. I think of Corbin as a joke and as such, having Kurt pick him to be his last opponent feels false. In character, it seemed to me Angle got what he wanted. So now he should go out against his handpicked guy.. Similar to Flair picking HBK.

    Of course a Corbin match would have a negative reaction.

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    I'd thought they'd set up Angle vs Corbin because it would be a relatively easy win for Angle to see him off into the sunset without him having to wrestle 15+ minutes and nearly die because his neck fell out of his ear.

    To be honest, I thought it was pretty clever booking. Corbin is (relatively) hated by the crowd, Angle will get a swansong, and it's all tied up in five minutes of in ring action.

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