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  1. #1
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Rap/Hip-Hop Thread

    If I might quote LL Cool J for a moment... don't call it a comeback.

    OK, with that done I'm going to exit stage left and leave this for people who know something about rap.

  2. #2
    Embracing Emptiness The Dude's Avatar
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    Tupac man...

  3. #3
    Wow, Rap is not popular around here.

    Maybe we need a West Texas Rednecks thread instead....

  4. #4
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I dunno, does The Jackal count? I've heard that called hip hop before....

    Also, Ninja rap!

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  5. #5
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    Kanye

    So Kanye released a new album, Ye over the weekend. I don't feel comfortable in saying he the greatest artist of our times (as some media publications are trying to claim) but I feel like he is one of the artist that really reflects the time we currently live in both musically and lyrically.

    I wouldn't say I'm a huge fan of all of his work but I always give him a listen and he has some tracks that have made it into heavy rotation with me.

    For me Ye continues on the more sprawling nature of Life of Pablo as opposed to his more refined work on Yeezus and My Beautiful Twisted Dark Fantasy. I wouldn't call it a loss of form totally but it is certainly a departure from a very successful and pleasing formula. It is funny to call an slbum sprawling when it only clocks in at 23 minutes but throughout he ranges from monologuing, to screaming, from laid back rhyming to more intense, in your face MC work. I probably need to listen a bit more but this strikes me as quite an introspective album, he has a lot of talk about family and his own mental state which perhaps matches with the focus of his life right now.

    One thing I think I will say that I do like about Kanye is that is is apologetically himself, even to the point of what would appear to the outside to be serious self-sabotage he does not blink, does not flinch, he wears his heart and personality on his sleeve.

    Anyway, what did you think of Ye if you've listened to it or more generally what do you think of Kanye?

  6. #6
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    Havenít heard the new stuff yet, but Kanye is awesome because he gives zero fucks. The song he did with Jay Z N*ggas In Paris is proof positive of that.

    I was a big fan of Yeezus, and I still love his early work... particularly Two Words and Get Em High.

  7. #7
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Never got the hype.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  8. #8
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    My suggestion would be listen to the song POWER and maybe even watch the movie clip, it is Kanye distilled, the ego, the creative and general ambition, the technical brilliance, the high level of production.

    If you don't like that song you probably won't like any Kanye.

  9. #9
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Yeah, I think I already know that one, which I guess gives you enough information to infer the rest of anything I might say.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  10. #10
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    So this guy XXXTentacion was shot and killed. I can't say I know his work but from the reaction it sounds like people in the know thought he was a big deal.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  11. #11
    Embracing Emptiness The Dude's Avatar
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    Downloaded Tupac's greatest hits and it's amazing. Whoever said he's not any good on the old board is 100% wrong.

    My favorite track on it is "Life Goes on" because that's how I feel about my own life and my friends too. If you die, yeah, it's sad, but life goes on and eventually you're forgotten.

  12. #12
    Senior Member LWO4Life's Avatar
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    I'm a HUGE 'Pac fan. My favorite rappers, top 3 of all time are in reverse order, Dr. Dre, 2Pac, and Snoop as my #1. If you are just getting into 2Pac, and you hear people say he's not any good, what they mean is lyricism. Compared to some artist like Mos Def, or Nas, he doesn't have as much in terms of wordplay.... BUT, and I mean BUT... if you ever hear the album Makaveli, 2Pac basically lyrically destroys EVERYONE. He comes off as he was always a battle rapper who raps about issues and dissed Biggie. That album was the last he recorded before his death and you truly see that we lost 'Pac at the very top of his game.

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    That's funny because I also downloaded Dre 2001 and Snoop Doggystyle, and yes they're both very very good.

    I downloaded geto boys greatest hits but it wasn't all that. They've done a couple of brilliant tracks like Ghetto Fantasy, damn it feels good to be a gangster etc but the majority of this so called greatest hits sucked.

    I wish I'd got into 2Pac when I was listening to Eminem and D12 almost religiously when I was 10-12. Instead I got into heavy metal, which I love to pieces but it doesn't have any street sense like a lot of rap does. Eminem is more comedic than the actual bare bones of it though, that's why I think I enjoyed 2Pac so much.

    I'm not the biggest fan of Biggie. Something about him annoys me...

  14. #14
    Senior Member LWO4Life's Avatar
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    I think with Biggie, at least for me back then, was that it felt forced what he was rapping about. Hip-Hop is very authentic, you have to put yourself in your songs. Playa Biggie always felt like an act, were as street life Biggie always felt like a true to life don.

    Geto Boys, and I think a lot of rap from the "Golden Era" of rap, about 1986-1996 (I expanded it because most have 1986-1991 as the Golden Era, but 1992-1996 as the Gangsta Rap Era was also considered a second Golden Era, so why not just put them together... LOL) is either really, really good to listeners of today, or it's like drinking straight black coffee, no cream, no sugar. For those that like coffee, and enjoy the actual coffee, sure, give it to me raw. But for those that are casual coffee drinkers, they might have a cup of coffee with dessert or with a donut or something, then a straight cup of black coffee might be too much. I think, not just the Geto Boys, but many acts of Hip-Hop's Golden Era have that same effect. Where as Dr. Dre provided layered beats that still hold up today, and added that cream and sugar, Rap-A-Lot's group of producers really gave you raw, uncut Hip-Hop, no cream, no sugar.

  15. #15
    Embracing Emptiness The Dude's Avatar
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    Rap nowadays is either over-produced or has virtually nothing interesting to say. No, actually that's too harsh, there is good stuff coming out today but it just seems harder to find.

    I was only a kid when most of the best stuff came out but I'm a retro kid mainly anyway. I don't dig Jay Z or whoever very much. I heard the blueprint album of his many times over at a friends house and it never grew on me, piece of shit in my eyes.

    I love UK grime if it's good but again, I'm very picky.

    Edit: The thing about the 90s was it was either this or that. nowdays there's so much choice it almost seems worse. Theres a new album or mixtape coming out every five minutes and nobody cares to listen.
    Last edited by The Dude; 08-13-2018 at 01:02 PM.

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    Pretty much the entire cast of Rhymesayers Records are awesome. (Especially Atmosphere... those dudes will always hold a place close to my heart. You want real lyrics with real meaning? Thatís all Slug throws at you, and Antís beats are always top notch.)

    Thereís also a bunch from the NYC underground, although a lot of them arenít doing much nowadays from what I can... Immortal Technique and Sabac spring to mind. Donít know if Ill Bill is still doing solo stuff or just working on La Coka Nostra stuff with Slaine, Everlast (yeah... that Everlast) and whoever else shows up.

    Slaughterhouse is great. Especially their first album. Havenít heard anything new from them in a while, either, although Royce Da 5í9Ē does still pop up with Eminem (who is still putting out great stuff) on occasion.

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    Embracing Emptiness The Dude's Avatar
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    I couldn't stand Marshall Mathers LP 2, sorry. Eminem is crap now. Completely past it. The only decent song on the album was only good because of Rihanna's vocals.

  18. #18
    Senior Member LWO4Life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meandi View Post
    Pretty much the entire cast of Rhymesayers Records are awesome. (Especially Atmosphere... those dudes will always hold a place close to my heart. You want real lyrics with real meaning? That’s all Slug throws at you, and Ant’s beats are always top notch.)

    There’s also a bunch from the NYC underground, although a lot of them aren’t doing much nowadays from what I can... Immortal Technique and Sabac spring to mind. Don’t know if Ill Bill is still doing solo stuff or just working on La Coka Nostra stuff with Slaine, Everlast (yeah... that Everlast) and whoever else shows up.

    Slaughterhouse is great. Especially their first album. Haven’t heard anything new from them in a while, either, although Royce Da 5’9” does still pop up with Eminem (who is still putting out great stuff) on occasion.
    So you are one of those hip-hop fans... LMAO... I got all of Immortal Technique's stuff. I always have a soft spot for Revolutionary Vol. 2. I think with underground, it's very hit or miss. Like I feel that anyone who hates mainstream and only listens to underground loves MF Doom. But to me, MF Doom is basically the whole Wu Tang Clan rolled up into one. So when I hear how original and great he is, I just think, "I heard everything he did on an old Wu album." Not to take away from MF Doom, but even the comic book persona, and the production. Rhymesayers, I live in Minnesota, and when I first got here from California in the early-2000's, everyone here tried to get me to listened to Atmosphere, and Eyedea & Abilities. This is what I'll say, I actually love all of them. At first, being a west coast guy, I thought Minnesota rap sounded way too east coast for my liking. But being in the mid-west this long, it's really grown on me and I really enjoy what they put out. They are very lyrical, which I did not expect. I def fucks with Rhymesayers Records.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    I couldn't stand Marshall Mathers LP 2, sorry. Eminem is crap now. Completely past it. The only decent song on the album was only good because of Rihanna's vocals.
    DAMN! Poor Em. See, past 35, I don't judge rappers no more. I just consider it their later years and when I rank rappers, unless they are still amazing, I don't hold anything past 35 against them. And Em, I had to break out that rule.

  19. #19
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    How old was Dre when chronic 2001 came out? I'm honestly wondering, because that album is sheer gold. It's got a young Em and Snoop etc doing great.

    It's not that if you're old you can't make good music, it's just that rap particularly relies on street sense so it helps when you're young and hungry for more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LWO4Life View Post
    So you are one of those hip-hop fans... LMAO...
    I donít even know what that means. It almost sounds like youíre calling me out as one of those ďunderground is the bestest and fuck mainstream stuffĒ guys. (Even though you pretty much agreed with a lot of what I said.) If thatís the case, yeah... I prefer the underground stuff. Thatís every genre of music, though. I fuck with mainstream stuff, too. Shit... it doesnít get much more mainstream than Shady. I love me some Kanye and Jay. Some newer guys that have been popping up on the Top 40 station here in Nashville.... NF and Logic. Iím all about those dudes, too.

    BTW... Third World is better than Revolutionary Vol 2 as a whole.

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    Senior Member LWO4Life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    How old was Dre when chronic 2001 came out? I'm honestly wondering, because that album is sheer gold. It's got a young Em and Snoop etc doing great.

    It's not that if you're old you can't make good music, it's just that rap particularly relies on street sense so it helps when you're young and hungry for more.
    Dr. Dre was 34 years old when it was released. Though if I remember, Em and others wrote all of his stuff.

    And that's exactly why I don't judge a rapper past 35. It's hard to still be in that mindset when you've spent the last 10 years living rich and famous. If you notice, rappers start to rap about fake people, the media people against them and jealousy the longer they stay famous. It's not to say some don't still make great music, one thing about Kanye was he was never streets, so he never lost the streets in his raps because it was never there.

    Quote Originally Posted by meandi View Post
    I don’t even know what that means. It almost sounds like you’re calling me out as one of those “underground is the bestest and fuck mainstream stuff” guys. (Even though you pretty much agreed with a lot of what I said.) If that’s the case, yeah... I prefer the underground stuff. That’s every genre of music, though. I fuck with mainstream stuff, too. Shit... it doesn’t get much more mainstream than Shady. I love me some Kanye and Jay. Some newer guys that have been popping up on the Top 40 station here in Nashville.... NF and Logic. I’m all about those dudes, too.

    BTW... Third World is better than Revolutionary Vol 2 as a whole.
    I was... LOL... but then I followed it up by basically saying I am too. I like to go between both.

    Logic though, oh man... I have issues with Logic. I like Logic, if he can stop reminding me he's bi-racial. He's actually really dope and he's so close to being a top 10 rapper, but he has to get off the bi-racial thing and rap about different things.

    Of course being west coast, I love K Dot. J Cole naturally is dope. Of the under 30 rappers, I mean... Joey BadA$$. I think him and Chance the Rapper will be the Dot/Cole of their generation.

    And nah. Rev. 2 is WAY better. Plus nothing touches You Never Know. That track still fucks with my mind.

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    You Never Know... the one about the chick he fell in love with that died of AIDS while he was in jail? If thatís it... that song legit brought a tear to my eye the first time I heard it.

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    Was never much of a kayne fan but it's cool that he wasn't "street" in a way because it gets sad and old that the only rappers around had a shit life/upbringing.

    Also, I can't stand Chance the Rapper because of that annoying ass "AH!" he puts in every single one of his songs. Doesn't click with me but my friend likes him.

  24. #24
    Senior Member LWO4Life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meandi View Post
    You Never Know... the one about the chick he fell in love with that died of AIDS while he was in jail? If that’s it... that song legit brought a tear to my eye the first time I heard it.
    Yep, that's the one. That track... damn...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    Was never much of a kayne fan but it's cool that he wasn't "street" in a way because it gets sad and old that the only rappers around had a shit life/upbringing.

    Also, I can't stand Chance the Rapper because of that annoying ass "AH!" he puts in every single one of his songs. Doesn't click with me but my friend likes him.
    One thing I'll say is I work with college students. I am admittedly old, 38 now. I don't claim to get "what they kids like these days," but I know that these college kids LOVE Chance, and he's lyrical enough. Him and Joey of the rappers under 25 are the only ones I hear that sound like rappers. 6ix9ne, and Cheif Keef, and all the mumble dudes, they cool and all, but they don't sound like rappers. Just like the last generation, Dot and Cole held it down for "real rap" in the era of Drake and Future, I think Chance and Joey hold it down in the era of Lil' Tatoo Face and Mumble.

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    What do you think of UK rap/Grime? I probably know more about that, at least the earlier stuff. If you can get past the crazy English accent theres some really good stuff, even more recently. I occasionally listen to a radio station called 1xtra which is all black/urban/R&B/Grime music to hear whats going on. A lot of the time it's crap but sometimes theres something really good.

  26. #26
    Senior Member LWO4Life's Avatar
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    You know, I know very little about it, other than the little I've heard is actually really good. I'll be honest, I might have not gave it a chance for years because I always thought I was going to hear some Horrorcore rap, like Gravediggaz. Also I've heard people refer to Horrorcore as Grime. But actually, when I did listen to UK Grime, it sounded, I think the closest I can think of is, like mid-west underground during the mid-west's peek years in the late-90's. Like it was very much like Tech N9ne, Royce da 5'9" kind of blend thing going, and it's really good. I don't follow it much but what I can fuck with, especially in this era of Mumble rappers in the US.

    Granted this is what I've heard, I'm sure the people giving me music to hear are giving me what they feel I'd like. LOL

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    The instrumentals/beats/background music in Grime reminds me of 90s west coast stuff as well. I was listening to Snoop's album "Doggystyle" and a lot of the tunes in Grime seem to be influenced by it.

    Grime is best when it's (at least partially) underground, rather than the pop shit the artists come out with in later years when they've made it/have money.

    That pretty much brings this convo full circle lol. Artists in general are better broke.

  28. #28
    Senior Member LWO4Life's Avatar
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    A legend died today... RIP Mac Miller

  29. #29
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    Damn, I barely knew the of guy. Discovered his work on this Tiny Desk like a week ago & was very impressed, certainly had it down to look at more of his stuff.



    Damn that sucks.

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    Senior Member LWO4Life's Avatar
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    So after one week, who do you think won? Eminem, or Machine Gun Kelly. I think Em won just off points. It's like this, I think Em had better bars. Kelly came on the Breakfast Club, claiming he had more facts, and that Em calling him a mumble rapper showed Em doesn't know what he's speaking about. At the same time, Jay vs. Nas had very little facts to it, it was Jay saying Nas had only one good album (a lie since Nas had 1 classic, 1 near classic, and 1 solid album and a dud) were as Nas said Jay was getting chased in his own building in 1988, saying he was calling Nas when they didn't know each other then. It's about making catchy bars. I do think MGK came off better in terms of flow, he sounded hungry and like he wanted to win this battle. Em sounded, basically meh, like he was wasting his time with this battle. It's almost like an old Ali fight were Ali is clearly the better fighter, and gives it half an effort just to give the crowd a close fight.

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