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Thread: Lex Luger

  1. #41
    The Brain
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    Yeah, difficult question for sure. Several pieces to it... if Luger won by countout but didn't celebrate like an idiot, does that make a difference? How much did the presentation after that point make a difference? I lean towards the idea that it was redeemable but I'm an admitted Luger fan.

    Speaking of Lex, I was watching the '88 War Games match from Greensboro last night and when Lex came into the ring you'd think it was Steve Austin at his peak from the way the crowd reacted, just unreal. I still can't believe they didn't put the title on him at Starrcade, even if it went back to Flair later I think a run on top would have established his value for the company at a higher level for years to come.

  2. #42
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    The celebration was a horrible move long term. A count out win in the main event of the 2nd biggest show of the year was obviously a mistake, but by having him celebrate as he did, it felt like there was no reason to get behind him any further. Had he lost by count out, and been frustrated, it would have kept the door open for more down the line.

    We've seen more examples in recent history, but the rushed push to the top for a babyface is very tough to pull off. When Hogan seemingly started the trend, it was the first time. And he ran wild over everyone. Luger stumbled in his first attempt, but acted like King of the World. He looked like a doofus.

    Also, as a Canadian fan, I was able to chant USA along with Hacksaw, or understand Hogan carrying the US flag vs Slaughter. But by 1993, I was 12, and wondering why I should be cheering this guy just because he's a patriot. I know, WWE is US based, so I'm not saying it was a bad move for US audiences. But internationally, I'm sure it was harder to get behind him.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEN15v2 View Post
    Also, as a Canadian fan, I was able to chant USA along with Hacksaw, or understand Hogan carrying the US flag vs Slaughter. But by 1993, I was 12, and wondering why I should be cheering this guy just because he's a patriot. I know, WWE is US based, so I'm not saying it was a bad move for US audiences. But internationally, I'm sure it was harder to get behind him.
    I always wondered how bad did the Canadian fan hate the mid 90s Hart Foundation story line, where they were portrayed as the foreign heel. Canada has been one of the US's biggest supporters, and the WWf made the Canadian wrestlers out to be dicks and anti-American. I know when the WWF went to Canada, they were treated like heroes, but what did the kids, or the parents think back then?

  4. #44
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    If it's anything like here in Britain, we mostly just cheered the heels, because the Americans kinda came off as bigger assholes anyway.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  5. #45
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    Fair enough, and that's because we are.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    I always wondered how bad did the Canadian fan hate the mid 90s Hart Foundation story line, where they were portrayed as the foreign heel. Canada has been one of the US's biggest supporters, and the WWf made the Canadian wrestlers out to be dicks and anti-American. I know when the WWF went to Canada, they were treated like heroes, but what did the kids, or the parents think back then?
    Awesome question. I hope this story is interesting to share.
    I LOVED WWF in 1997. But I was just getting into becoming a "smark", calling a local hotline (no internet yet in my home). Also I only had Saturday afternoon wrestling recapping Raw, but I didn't actually catch an actual episode of Raw until this time. And it was Raw is War, which was completely different from the Sat afternoon Prime Time or whatever it was called at that point. I didn't know of ECW, and Nitro was not on TV as far as I knew. There might have been Raw and Nitro the entire time, but I wasn't aware until 96-97.

    But, I wasn't the biggest Bret Hart fan. His run in 1992 was when I started to wane from wrestling. It's similar to today's style, I prefer characters over "I'm an athlete and I wrestle good" characters. Yet, the stuff vs Austin got me back into wrestling, and his heel turn was fascinating. And his anti-US was fucking glorious. In my older age, I appreciate the things Bret did that I was bored by in 1992-1996. But at that age, his values weren't strong enough to me. It wasn't until he developed more to his character that I was agreeing with the best there is, was, ever will be (until CM Punk).

  7. #47
    Transgender Terror
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    Hart and Punk are both rotten trash.

  8. #48
    The Brain
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    Really dig that story, Pen. Always interesting to hear about lived experiences from those hot times. Were you on team Bret or Luger in '93?

  9. #49
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    Yes, good story.

  10. #50
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    I don't really remember caring very much in 1993. I know I watched some of the PPVs thanks to connections with illegal cable boxes. I know I was super into SummerSlam 94. But I remember caring about Luger or Bret. Though I think Owen vs Bret was a great story that hooked me in, and maybe the 2 Undertakers stuff as well.

  11. #51
    The Brain
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    The two Undertaker stuff, despite being critically panned, definitely intrigued me when I first heard about it.

    Watching some early Nitro stuff and am loving the little circle of babyface distrust between Luger, Sting, Savage, and Hogan. Amazing that they didn't run at Luger & Sting vs. Savage & Hogan tag match on top of a PPV at some point, but I guess Hogan playing with monster trucks and recreating the shittiest possible version of the '92 Rumble was more important.

  12. #52
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    As silly WWF stuff goes, the two Undertakers angle was fine. The payoff wasn't great, but they got a lot of decent enough segments out of it, even though it probably is Undertaker at it's silliest.

    Given that Bisch wasn't that sold on Lex in '95, and that Hogan and Savage were almost indestructible at the time, my guess is that he just didn't see a tag match between those two pairs as even a bit of a fair fight. I mean, a few months later Lex couldn't beat Hogan/Macho with seven other partners. I know Sting was a different kettle of fish and all, but even so....

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  13. #53
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    This thread is silly good. Wish I could give it ten stars.

    Luger/Hogan, Sting/Hogan, Luger/Sting vs. Savage/Hogan were dreams matches for almost a decade in anyone but Bischoff's head. Evidence bears that out. Pro wrestling mags were flirting with a Luger-Hogan match as far as late 80s/early 90s. Instead, Sting had become a midcard talent since Hogan arrived in 1994 (especially in any space close to Hogan), Flair went from "let's have a series of title switches with you and Hogan" to "let's have you be a jobber to Hogan so we can move Brother Brutus to the main event." If I told you mid-90's WCW would have the opportunity to have almost every dream match imaginable in that era, the part that you would scoff at is how is WCW going to get the top stars from WWF? Bischoff did wonders with Ted Turner's checkbook, to employ those top stars, but the great blindspot that kept WCW, early on, from being fantasy booking dream matches, is that the same man who ran WCW and brought WWF to WCW didn't value anything produced by his own company.
    Last edited by Mystic; 1 Week Ago at 10:13 AM.

  14. #54
    The Brain
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    Given that Bisch wasn't that sold on Lex in '95, and that Hogan and Savage were almost indestructible at the time, my guess is that he just didn't see a tag match between those two pairs as even a bit of a fair fight.
    I'm sure you're right about what Bischoff thought, but the fact that instead he ran with Hogan being hugged to death by Giant and THE YETAYYY should prove his judgment was far from sound much of the time!

  15. #55
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    You won't get any arguments from me on that. I seem to remember Nitro being horrible to watch for the first six months or so. Though maybe it would have been different if I'd seen it in real time - we didn't get Nitro in the UK until May of 1996.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  16. #56
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    What on earth are you guys talking about? That Hogan stuff from 1995 IS THE FUNNIEST SHIT EVER! Let's review; first we had The Giant coming in as Andre the Giant's son. Then we had the "WHERE AM I?! THERE'S NO HULKAMANIACS HERE!" angle where Hogan invades the Dungeon of Doom and learns that the water there, is in fact, not hot. Then we had the Dungeon shaving off Hogan's mustache, an offense just as terrible as burning the American flag, followed by the Yeti breaking out of ice (I may have the order wrong here). There is of course Halloween Havoc 1995, an all timer of an event which features the funniest match in wrestling history (the Monster Truck Sumo match), followed by Hogan pushing Giant off the roof ("OH NO!"), followed by The Giant inexplicably surviving the fall with no explanation given, followed by the Jimmy Hart heel turn that led to Hogan losing the title BY DQ, and finally ending with The Giant, Yeti and Hulk Hogan having a live sex celebration while a newly turned Lex Luger (LOOK HOW I TIED IT ALL BACK!) re-evaluated his life choices (in between all this Sting is betrayed by Ric Flair for the 9,000th time in an angle that was not good at all. Totally sucked. Nowhere near as good as the shit I just talked about!). And then, just when you think it's all over, Hogan comes back with PHANTOM OF THE HOGAN!



    And that's just some of the shit; I haven't even gotten to Hogan ripping up the Observer on World War 3 and giving Pen his first erection ("OBSERVE THIS BROTHER!") or the triple decker cage match from Uncensored 1996 where you can finally see Lex Luger's heart fully break (that's why he betrays The Alliance to Kill Hulkamania at the end despite being on their side the whole match) and Hogan finally realize "you know...maybe this babyface thing has run it's course!" Incredible stuff. Keep your Hogan/Savage vs. Luger/Sting dream matches and all that other shit; I wouldn't trade the Hogan-Dungeon of Doom feud for another season of Lucha Underground!


  17. #57
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    It was a semi. Or at least that's what I tell anyone who laughs at the size.

  18. #58
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    Hang on, hogan ripped up the observer on a ppv??? Hahaha!

  19. #59
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    He didn't rip it up; he threw it into a flaming garbage bin! EVEN BETTER! At the risk of killing Pen's semi, it was because Meltzer has reported that Savage had torn his triceps (true), so Hogan lashed out at Meltzer for saying Savage wouldn't be on the show (Dave had reported weeks earlier Savage would be on the show and would be forgoing surgery) and that The Giant would win World War 3 (Meltzer had said Sting or Savage were the favorites, although he thought Giant was the right guy to win). Hogan also threw his Phantom of the Hogan clothes into the flaming bin as well, just to give you some insight into how off his rocker he was at the time. Just another day in Hulk Hogan's 1995.


  20. #60
    Transgender Terror
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    He even leg dropped the bin.

  21. #61
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    I never thought I'd say this. I can't wait to watch world War 3 1995.

  22. #62
    The Brain
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    Just skip the Duggan match and the shit show of the battle royale itself, and it's actually a very good show!

    Funny enough I was just watching through this exact era, right down to that silly burning the Observer segment. Perhaps even more ridiculous than the burning is Hogan first being shown in a black shirt and bandana (because he was so edgy at the time, you see), only to take them off and burn them as well. Okerlund and everyone is shocked at this... as the camera pans back and we see Hogan was wearing blindingly bright yellow and red tights in plain sight the whole time, haha. Oh, and he also told the fans that the internet had all "the scoops"!

    I am actually really enjoying the opening months of Nitro. As Cult mentioned, the stupid stuff is at least funny, the introduction of guys like Guerrero and Benoit is quickly spicing up the in ring action (which was already getting pretty strong outside of the main event), and while Hogan's goofiness is running wild you do get some elements of great booking, of which the Luger/Sting relationship is a great example. Even as Luger is managed by the now evil Jimmy Hart, Sting still teams up with him and includes him on the babyface side of things. Layered stuff that will eventually feed really well into the Crow transformation!

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