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  1. #41
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    Kind of shows my point about being able to fight back in ODI if you are in a tight spot. England have done very well.

    Also shows the class of England, there was a similar kind of moment in Australia's last match against Bangladesh where Finch & Warner got off to a flyer. When Kawaja came in he was just able to easily kick on, Warner also hit the accelerator and then Maxwell came in to score 30 off like 10 balls. Australia ended up on 380 and the game was over, instead when Finch & Maxwell got so well in England were able to up the pressure and have now really dislodged Australia from that great position they were in.
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  2. #42
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I do see the point about ODI but I also feel like it's so in the middle that it kind of pleases no one. There's none of the epic sweep of a test match that appeals to me, but similarly I can imagine it not being fast enough, or having the impetus to the big hits, for the T20 fan.... that said, I give both of the shorter forms about as much attention as each other.

    Good score if you want to make a game of it from Australia. Not un-gettable, but certainly enough that England will have to play better than we've seen so far.

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  3. #43
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    The evolution of the 50 over game has been so remarkable. 286 used to be considered a pretty high score in the format, I feel - now I look at it and think it's probably below par.

    Bit wary of saying that, given England have yet to bat...

  4. #44
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    Root gone, I'd say that's probably that.

    Haven't seen the dismissal yet, was thinking poor technique for Vince but if they're falling like skittles you wonder if it's the conditions and 280+ is actually pretty decent.

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  5. #45
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    Wow that was a nice surprise to wake to.

    Australia’s biggest strength for a number of years has been its bowling and boy did that show this match.

    I imagine warning bells are ringing in the England camp now. How are the local press taking it?
    Last edited by SirSam; 06-25-2019 at 05:52 PM.
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  6. #46
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I think there's some recognition that it's not an awful result because of the qualities of Australia, but that England were poor, and they've left themselves with everything to do. There's a feeling that they aren't incapable of winning both games and progressing, but at the same time.... there's big clamour to get Roy back into the side.


    But yeah, we bowled poorly early on and then you bowled well, and we never looked like dealing with it. Worthy winners in the end, and it wasn't close.

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  7. #47
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    England have just kept their tournament alive with a huge win over India.

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  8. #48
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    .... and they make the semi-finals for the first time since 1992, with a big one over New Zealand.

    Tournament saved, I guess.

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  9. #49
    Amazing catch by their guy to get rid of Eoin Morgan though.

  10. #50
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Bloody hell. New Zealand beat India. Australia three down quickly. What the hell is happening?

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  11. #51
    Senior Member Gooner's Avatar
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    That was perfect from England. So, naturally, they'll get hammered by NZ...


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  12. #52
    Eeeeeennnngggggg-er-llllllaaaaannddddddd!

    Huge slice of luck and a massive technicality but who the fuck cares.

  13. #53
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    Interesting to hear that apparently there was a bit of a cock-up in the scoring, and that England probably shouldn't have got the draw. But not a lot you can do about it now, I suppose.

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  14. #54
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    First Ashes test is intriguingly set-up right now. Aussie collapse before they saved the test, then a debut century and batting through the day to give the bowlers enough of a rest and a lead of 90 to bowl at.

    Glenn McGrath has said the first 40 overs are absolutely crucial for England and if they skittle a few wickets in the afternoon session today then they could win the whole thing quite quickly. Conversely, a big opportunity for Bancroft and Warner to bat Australia into pole position.

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  15. #55
    Fucking Smith. Best that is there is the draw now.

  16. #56
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    The draw has probably gone now, too.

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  17. #57
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    Well first day of the second test looks like it is going to get washed out.

    Gotta say that while we needed up winning the first test pretty comprehensively it did nothing for my overall confidence in the side. Our batting is just so damn fragile, if it wasn't for Smith and the bowlers we would havscored about 140 for our first innings and have been shot.
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  18. #58
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    You're problems are nothing compared with ours, though. We don't have the batsmen. Our bowlers are still good, but I don't think they are any better than yours unless you've got Anderson/Broad firing on all cylinders, which happens less and less as their ageing bodies break down. I don't think we've got much in the way of spin anymore either, and while I don't think Lyon is the best I've seen he's certainly a legit option in a way that Moeen isn't when off-form. It does beg the question of why so many of our players are either all or nothing.

    That said, the big problem for me is the captain. Root's a fine batsman but he's such a step down on Cook, who was himself a step down on Strauss in that role. I just don't see us winning any close run games with him leading the side, and he hasn't known how to use the bowlers to deal with Smith, the one true obstacle in the Aussie team.

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  19. #59
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    I'm not sure if you are watching or not but the Aussie bowlers are all over the English batsmen this morning.

    Root had a couple of good moments but got out plumb.

    I must say that we are incredibly blessed with fast bowlers, being able to rest Josh Hazelwood and Mitch Starc in the first test and still have an incredible attack is a luxury not many teams would have.

    Lyons is incredible really, picked while he was still working as a grounds keeper at the Adelaide Oval, was in and out of the team for the first half of his career but has now gone on to take over 300 wickets and will probably end his career as our second highest wicket taker ever behind Warne & McGrath, that is ahead of guys like Dennis Lillee, Brett Lee, Jason Gillsepie, Richie Benaud and Mitch Johnson which is pretty rare company. However he has rarely felt like the kind of bowler who could rip through a team like most of those guys I've listed did.

    For the English team I get what you're saying about the batsmen, Root and Stokes are really the only ones that I worry about but if Archer can fire up he is a very exciting prospect.

    Have you had a chance to watch the movie The Edge? It is a doco about the English team from 2010-2014 that got to the top of the world but fell apart in Australia. I'm really interested in seeing it when it comes to Australia because all reviews seem to say it is one of the best modern sports docos.
    Last edited by SirSam; 08-15-2019 at 07:19 AM.
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  20. #60
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I'm following but not watching, and yeah, you're all over us. Combination of good bowling and some weak, weak batting. What we lack is not shotmakers, because we've got dozens of them, but someone who can dig in and tough it out in test cricket. Could be because we've had a decade of our priority, behind the scenes, being the one day game. And y'know, they did win the world cup so you can't say it's a failure, but for those of us interested in tests it's not really worth it.

    Lyon's good, no doubt, but I think I agree with the assessment that he isn't going to rip through a side the way the better bowlers that you've mentioned did. Those numbers are a combination of playing more games, and I'd wager taking more tail wickets. There's a reason Murali has more wickets than Warne, even though we all know that really, the latter was the better spinner.

    I haven't seen that documentary, no. My understanding was that the Ashes just happened to be a series too far for 1-2 of the key players, and that made all the difference (along with the widely reported differences between Pietersen and the management team). I'd be interested to find out if there was more to it than that, because it always struck me as slightly odd that Trott/Swann etc could all be doing fine one minute, and then be passed it to the point of retirement almost overnight.

    I suppose, though, it's not the first time that you've seen that happen in sports, so maybe I'm just sad because that was the end of such a great era for us.



    England just passed 50, two down.

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  21. #61
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    These two seem to have got their eye in a little and have played some very nice drives.

    As for World Cups, I would honestly prefer to win an away Ashes or Indian tour but then again we have World Cups coming out of our eyeballs at this point and I am a die hard who loves test cricket so of course I put a priority on that.
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  22. #62
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I do as well. But as I say, that's been the ECB's priority for a long time. They put their resources into winning the world cup, and even though I don't much care and would much rather have been developing batsmen who can win test matches, it's hard to criticise them when they hit their goal.

    Plus, outside of a couple of countries the shorter forms of the game are becoming dominant, so it's probably no surprise that they want to be competing at the versions that will be more lucrative down the line.

    And yes, big improvement from these two. Been a vital intervention in the game, this.

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  23. #63
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    Interesting moment right now in the test. The England bowlers have done some great work early and got Australia to 4-80 but Smith is looking set and he has Wade next to him who is a player that is in form.

    Seems the combination of two very good bowling teams and relatively fragile batting orders in English conditions mean that any score over 250 is competitive.
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  24. #64
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    And yet the bowler's mindset seemed to change the minute they had to deal with Smith. He's living rent-free in their heads.

    This one is getting rained out, though. Without a monumental collapse there's no way we're getting a result. No more play likely today. Australia will have to bat through day 4 to get a lead at all, especially as the conditions tomorrow should continue to make batting tricky. England will just be coming in after lunch on Sunday with the goal of not losing and almost no chance of winning.

    And we're heading to Headingly next, which has been like the WACA in England in terms of a happy hunting ground for Australia. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Ashes wrapped up there.

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  25. #65
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    Ouch. Steve Smith retires hurt after being struck with the ball by Archer.

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  26. #66
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    That was an incredible stretch of cricket. Archer was bowling proper express bowling against the best batsman in the world.

    Will make things very interesting if he can't play the next match as he was the difference in the first match.
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  27. #67
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    Out of the rest of this one... and I may have spoken too soon about the result. It's unlikely but a wicket an over will do the job for England before the close of play.

    Seen some interesting comments about Australia sending Smith back out there with a suspected concussion....

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  28. #68
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    From what I read he passed their initial tests and then pulled up with effects the next day. Certainly smells a little funny but based on my (pretty limited) knowledge of concussions that isn't completely abnormal.

    It is a huge blow for us that he will miss the next test. May be a turning point of the series. Hopefully it is a catalyst for Warner & Khawaja to stand up as the leaders of the lineup not that I'm terribly confident in either, Warner is struggling to get past 10 and Khawaja seems to have regressed to his bad habbit of getting out in the 30s just when he should be kicking on.

    England seems to be working their way into this series nicely though. Headingly is going to be huge.
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  29. #69
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I think it's not abnormal, but that was part of the way it was getting reported here: knowing that people often have delayed reaction, what the hell were they doing putting him out there again when there was every chance that he'd still break down?

    Difficult position to be in, I suppose, but this is why I think all sports need to take these decisions out of the teams' hands and have independent doctors.

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  30. #70
    I'm feeling root and the England batsmen need a massive total in headlingley for the next test!

  31. #71
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    They could do with one, but I'm not sure it's coming!

    Smith ruled out of the third test. James Anderson still out but could be back for the fourth.

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  32. #72
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    I have to laugh at the English media's sudden concern for Steve Smith's health.

    "Oh no, he can't possibly play, his health is too important to compromise for just a game of cricket.

    So nice that they care about our best batsman that much.
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  33. #73
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    Haha, frankly I don't think anyone here really gives a damn about Steve Smith's health. It's not all self-interest though. Speaking personally, I don't really care if he lives or dies, but the principal at stake that you protect the health of athletes especially around head injuries is more important than who wins any game, or even really about him as an individual.

    The way I see it is this. A British journalist might sound quite self-interested because what they are arguing for is the removal of your star batsman. But if it were anyone else, it wouldn't be an issue, because they'd have been taken out as a precaution anyway.

    A late start at Headingley, and they are off again for rain, but the interim Archer snaffled the wicket of Marcus Harris.

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  34. #74
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    That was a really intense first little bit of play. Broad and Archer were so close to getting both men a number of times. Broad was almost too good for Warner who played and missed so many times as he seemed to be able to seam the ball at will. Just beautiful bowling.

    It will be interesting to see if Smith leaving helps Warner & Khawaja stick their hands up as the two senior batsmen. Khawaja has always been best as an opener and he pretty much will be opening when they return to play.
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  35. #75
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    Khawaja gone, nicked one off Broad for 8. Currently 39-2 with Warner starting to look crucial.

    Khawaja is a funny one because whenever I've seen him he's looked like has all the tools, but he doesn't deliver all that often and doesn't seem completely reliable.

    Sounds like there could be more wickets. England vary the length slightly and they'll turn these beating the edge moments into fine edges. But the rain has intervened again, and they've just gone off as I'm typing.

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  36. #76
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    This test has more twists and turns than a helter skelter.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  37. #77
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    That is as good of a description of Khawaja as you are going to get. He has had some moments of excellent form but most of his career has been frustrating to watch.

    Ive inky just seen the score card but looks like after Warner fell we had a classic Aussie middle order batting collapse, I can't see Travis Head staying in the team when Smith comes back unless he scores big next innings.
    Seems Archer must have been bowling with some venom as well, I hope the weather stays the same, will make for an interesting battle between the Aussie bowlers and England's batsmen.
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  38. #78
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    The moment I saw people trumpeting was when he started bowling slower, and people who follow the game far more closely than me were saying 'he's realised the ball is doing enough on this wicket and is moderating his pace for the conditions. He's the real deal'.

    Australia are either in a hole or England will be bowled out cheaply tomorrow and we'll find this is actually a decent score on this wicket!

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  39. #79
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    Well turns out 160 may have been a good score, even without the weather that Broad & ARcher took advantage of the Australian bowlers have been utterly ruthless. I wouldn't call it a collapse because the wickets have been somewhat spread out but none of the English batsmen have been able to make convincing runs despite some being in for quite a while. Just goes to show what we both said early, both sides have incredibly good bowling lineups.
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  40. #80
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    Two good bowling line-up and two poor batting ones, for the most part. Tough viewing for an Englishman today.

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