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  1. #1
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Bond. James Bond.

    Seem to recall we had a pretty decent Bond thread going off on the last version of the board. Maybe the latest news will get that going again.

    Anyway, sounds like Remi Malek will be in the new one potentially as a villain, and that Phoebe Waller-Bridge, fresh off her exploits of writing Killing Eve has been brought into the scriptwriting team. At least I assume they are more interested in her Killing Eve stint than her Fleabag credit.

    Anyway, all this probably means that there'll be more news in the near-to-mid future.


    All the things Bond (at least in the cinematic incarnations): discuss!

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  2. #2
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    Is Idris Elba still the big rumor of taking up the role? Or is Daniel Craig coming back?

  3. #3
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Neither - the favourites are Tom Hiddleston and Richard Madden.

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  4. #4
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    I wouldíve gone to see it if Elba was in. (Canít stand Craig...) Iím still down with Hiddleston, as well. I donít know who that other guy is, though.

  5. #5
    Transgender Terror
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    Funny coincidence, I just watched Tomorrow Never Dies earlier today. Kind of have a soft spot for this film.

    Skyfall is in my top five all time movies list, though.

  6. #6
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    Madden and Hiddleston could work. I've never really rated Elba bit he's certainly popular enough among fans so would hardly be upset if he won the role.

    Excited by Malek as the villain, definitely, and the fact it's a new director. My issue with Spectre was that it felt like a really poor retread of Skyfall, with all of Bond's human frailty stripped away - which has very much been the MO of Craig's take.

    Any word on a title? I heard it was meant to be part of the reveal the other day. But then it wasn't.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by meandi View Post
    I don’t know who that other guy is, though.
    Meandi, the other guy is Robb Stark from GoT and from Bodyguard, if you watch either show.

    That's also the first time I've ever seen someone say they can't stand Craig as Bond.

  8. #8
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    Never watched either of those. My disdain for Craig goes back further than just Bond, though. What movie he did with Nicole Kidman that was based on some trilogy of books... Golden Compass, I think?

  9. #9
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I don't think I actually made it all the way through Golden Compass, as you bring it up.


    They've had to pause filming because Craig injured himself doing an action scene.

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  10. #10
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Here's the recent news on Bond, interesting stuff for those of you who in the old thread talked about wanting it to be more of a code name. They've sort of gone half-way on it.

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/201...d-daniel-craig

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  11. #11
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    I can get fully on board with the notion of a female 007.

    The notion of a literal 'female James Bond' is only something I can't grasp because if you change the gender and name of a character surely to goodness you can't sensibly contest it's the same character, right? I mean, it's the broom question isn't it? If you have a broom and then you change the handle and the broom is it still the same broom?

    If it's meant more ambiguously though - as in, a female 007 as a successor to the character of James Bond - then that I'm excited by, especially if it's worked actively into the story. It expands the mythos, it creates a fascinating new angle to inspect the Bond character through and it is another way to bring the franchise up to date for the contemporary world we live in, which is something it's constantly in need of doing to survive.

  12. #12
    I agree. I think the story of a new 007 tracking down the former sounds pretty cool. And if that new 007 is a woman, cool. I’m still very interested. Craig will still be the star and I think a lot of people whining now will be pleasantly surprised.

  13. #13
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    Well, recent weeks have revealed a rather ordinary poster (though I'm really loving the font type on it!) as well as a title: No Time To Die. It's simple, definitely very Bondian and I rather quite like it! Thoughts?

  14. #14
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Here's the trailer for No Time to Die (out in April), if anyone has yet to see it.


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  15. #15
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    I'm very excited. Malek looks like he's about to kill it. Lots of rumours flying that he's actually going to end up being Dr No in something of an update of that story from the novels (the book is pretty different to the 1962 film). I would prefer an original character, but only because I grow very weary of this desire studios have to pretend something isn't what it quite painfully obviously is. But it's all just a rumour anyway, could be zero substance to it.

    Billie Eilish is doing the theme song too, we now know. Not sure how to feel on that - not a fan of her music, but I can imagine her fitting quite well with a Bondian style.

  16. #16
    Nothing is worse than the Star Trek producers screaming Benedict Cumberbatch is NOT Kahn before the release of the film when everyone knew he was.

    And I agree Eilish seems to fit Bond, and at least she writes her own music.

  17. #17
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    The Bond team bizarrely repeated that exact mistake that the Trek team did when they were adamant that the main villain - IN A FILM CALLED SPECTRE - being played by an Austrian accent and seen sat drenched in shadow at the head of a table of henchmen - an image that's iconic in Bondian lore - absolutely was not in anyway Ernst Blofeld.

    It kills the film, man. I like Into Darkness but if they'd worn the villain on their sleeve it would have been a benefit. Same with Spectre. Why they fussed over all this pish about pretending Blofeld is someone else, and it turns out he's Bond's step-brother and all the rest of it... You're revisiting a classic because it's a classic. Rewriting it seems self-defeating. To then spend the entire promo time for the movie pretending you're not, when it's bloody obvious you are, is just frustrating.

  18. #18
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Right so with the new one nearly here (I assume, I keep seeing the trailer now) - maybe kickstart a bit of conversation - anyone wanna give us their list of the top 5 Bond films?

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  19. #19
    Senior Member Gooner's Avatar
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    I've always thought of watching all 25 (once NTTD comes out) one after the other and finally have an overall view.

    Off the top of my head, I'm partial to the more recent-ish movies...

    5. Spectre
    4. Moonraker (first one I ever watched)
    3. Skyfall
    2. Casino Royale
    1. Goldeneye

    Not a film, but shout out to 007 Everything or Nothing game, one of the better Bond stories for me.


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  20. #20
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    I mean, how do I not indulge myself with these kinds of questions?

    I'd have to sit and think real hard on this, and probably have to watch them all back through again, to give a definitive answer. But the first five that popped into my head were Licence to Kill, The Living Daylights, You Only Live Twice, Skyfall and (yes, I'm going to be that guy...) Quantum of Solace.

    The two Dalton flicks had to be in there for me. LTK is my favourite entry of all 24, soon to be 25 films. I just adore it. The characterisation in the novels has always been my barometer for the different Bonds, and Dalton absolutely nailed it both times, but the grounded and gritty story of LTK - it's like an exposed raw nerve - really allows him to properly inhabit 007 in a way TLD didn't quite manage. So its inclusion was a given of course.

    As a Dalton fan I really like The Living Daylights too, a lot. It suffers a bit from a relatively weak villain, but that's made up for by Necros - a viable rival to Red Grant if ever there's been one! The fight hanging out the back of the airplane is immense, the attack on the countryside retreat is brilliant and the darker tone is really effective I think.

    You Only Live Twice was a favourite of mine way back in my single digit years when I first saw one or two Bond movies and fell in love with the franchise, so I do have a soft spot for it, and a big one. But what I find interesting is that, for all the trumpeting Goldfinger and Thunderball benefit from, and even From Russia With Love to a degree, it's really You Only Live Twice that's had the ever-present legacy as spy fantasy iconography. The volcano lair, the plot to start WWIII through some bizarre nefarious means, Donald Pleasence's performance, the battle between an army of good guys and an army of bad guys in an attack on the evil base, the use of a deadly animal to kill henchmen and enemies, even the OTT gadgetry that went to another level with Little Nellie - it's You Only Live Twice that gets most frequently and obviously borrowed from, both within the Bond franchise itself (The Spy Who Loved Me is basically just a re-run in a lot of ways!), in other older spy films and even in parodies like Austin Powers. For that reason I think you can't look past it, even though so many people do.

    Skyfall I think is quite possibly the best made movie of the lot, and its balance of old and new is sublime. Silva is an iconic villain, the final act is beautiful to watch and quite effective, the inflections of Bond's past feel refreshingly original and daring, it's got a towering theme song, an outstanding score and more than one excellent action set-piece. The 'Bond Girl' - Severine - as intoxicating in both her mystery and tragedy too. She's one of my favourite female dalliances of the entire franchise, telling so much story in such a short amount of screen time.

    Quantum of Solace I appreciate is going to have people roll eyes. I used to dislike it with the best of them, but when I revisited all of Craig's efforts ahead of Spectre a few years ago I quite unexpectedly both fell a little out of love with Casino Royale, because of its almost impenetrably convoluted first half, and quite in love with Solace. I know it feels a bit incomplete, but what I love about it is that its lean run-time, its simple evil scheme (that I actually think is rather clever, and certainly plays lightly with themes of climate change) and its stripped back approach to older tropes, that at times are overtly subversive, are all major strengths that put me in mind of some of Connery's earliest outings. It feels like a '60s Bond film in the 21st Century to me. I love that the central female character doesn't sleep with 007 - isn't that something of a trope now being called outdated? Well, Solace called it 12 years ago. I love that there's a showdown with a desperately outmatched head villain in something of a lair (an empty hotel, but one designed to evoke evil layers of yore) at the end, followed by a muted final scene that contemplates Bond's motivations and patriotic dedication. I love the oil drenched tribute to Goldfinger, the tension in the relationship between Bond and M - some wonderful accidental groundwork for Skyfall no less! - and I utterly adore the duality of the scene where Mathis dies. What a moment of examination for Bond's character that is, swinging so radically from sympathetic to detached and cold! Sure, the plane thing is really awkwardly threaded in, there's no real standout action set piece and there's no Grant or Jaws or Hinx, but I think what is there is actually pretty inspired. I've developed a real love for the lean, mean Quantum of Solace, especially viewed in an age where it feels like every franchise now has to churn out films clocking in close to two and a half hours, very often unnecessarily.

    What would yours be, Prime?

    Shocked to see Moonraker on a top five list! Haha. But then nostalgic attachment does count for a lot. The inclusion of the woeful Spectre, however, I'm afraid is unforgivable Gooner!

  21. #21
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    As you've asked I'll give mine. However, I will say that I don't have your familiarity with the franchise - in fact there are several that I think I've only seen once, and so plenty of opportunity for some to improve with more familiarity.

    But as the only one the Craig ones I liked was Skyfall, you can tell mine is going to have to have a very different look (and I never saw Spectre!). And I quite like Moonraker, but then I do have a lot more time for Bond cheese than some people do, and that's one of the prime outings in that arena.

    But my top 5, in chronological rather than rank order.

    From Russia With Love
    Thunderball
    You Only Live Twice
    The Man With the Golden Gun
    Goldeneye

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  22. #22
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    Solid choices! I must confess I've never shared the love for Goldeneye that most seem to have. It's always felt sort of a bit...dilute, I think would be the closest word; sort of, a bit thin. The score is horrible too. Man with the Golden Gun is an interesting choice, as I think a lot of people really don't care for it much!

  23. #23
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    Goldeneye is probably a nostalgia pick, as it's not the first one I saw but the first one that came out when I was old enough to have a sense of what it was. So that makes a difference.

    If you asked me to explain Man with the Golden Gun, I'm not sure I could. Just remember liking it a lot.

    I will say, those are the two that could be vulnerable to being knocked out of the list if I got the chance to rewatch the whole lot. The three Connery films are pretty well locked in, barring something seismic.

    EDIT: Went on Rotten tomatoes to compare (Man with the Golden Gun is near the bottom which is blasphemy!) and here's a couple of interesting lists.

    Their top five:

    1. Goldfinger
    2. Casino Royale
    3. Dr. No
    4. From Russia With Love
    5. Skyfall

    This would look a lot like my most overrated list (#4 excepted, obviously), but we'll move quickly on from that little barb into the top five if each actor is only allowed to appear once....

    1. Goldfinger
    2. Casino Royale
    3. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    4. The Spy Who Loved Me
    5. Goldeneye

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  24. #24
    Senior Member Gooner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel 'Plan View Post
    Shocked to see Moonraker on a top five list! Haha. But then nostalgic attachment does count for a lot. The inclusion of the woeful Spectre, however, I'm afraid is unforgivable Gooner!

    Haha well, I honestly can't remember much of the film as it's been well over 10 years since I last saw it, other than really enjoying the space bit at the end and Jaws. But that's half the problem with a lot of bond films for me, they blend into one, so something like going to a space lair sticks out.

    Personally, I've really enjoyed Daniel Craig as Bond, I can't profess to reading any of the novels, but he brought more realism to the role (which I admit has been slightly diluted as time has gone by) so most of his films I've enjoyed. I thought Spectre was fine for what it was to be honest. Decent villain and I liked that there was obviously a continuation to come, it was not the end of the story.

    Quantum... is just confusing. That's what I remember most from that film.


    Going back to my list however... I put Skyfall first mainly because of the same reason you mentioned: it's quite possibly the best made movie of the lot. But I think on reflection I would prefer to watch Casino Royale. I play poker quite a bit and I've always loved seeing that on film so that pulls strongly for me.


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  25. #25
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    Not shocked at all to learn Man With The Golden Gun is ranked low on RT - my understanding is that it doesn't have the best rep among the fan base. But maybe the fan base - like so many others it seems these days - has gotten a little po-faced (spelling?) about it all and forgotten that Bond was, at its height, more fantasy than anything else.

    I totally get the thrill of how they use poker in Casino Royale, especially if you play it! Nothing felt more glamorous and high rolling at the time, a British spy playing a high stakes card game in an exotic locale, sipping cocktails and flanked by a gorgeous femme fatale. There's a reason that is, essentially, indirectly through the first of the books that inspired the franchise that defined a genre, the foundational image of cinematic spy-craft! I was really intrigued as to how they'd be able to portray the card game dramatically at the time. I think it's safe to say they pulled it off - especially with that brutal detour with the knife fight on the stairs! One of the franchise's stand out action scenes I think, that.

    A Fave Five without any actor appear more than once you say?

    Then I'd probably end up looking like:

    Licence To Kill
    You Only Live Twice
    Skyfall
    On Her Majesty's Secret Service

    And then I think either A View to a Kill or Tomorrow Never Dies. It's a toss up really. I think the former is the Moore Bond you should go for if you want to watch a Moore Bond. It's silly, it's camp, it's got a zany plot, it's everything that defined Moore's run really, but doesn't go too far into nonsense like I felt Moonraker did or too far into subpar quality like I felt Golden Gun did. It feels like Bond as far as you can stretch Bond towards silly before it becomes either parody or just a really rubbish. And I know I name dropped two of your guys' picks but I swear I'm not trolling!

    Similarly I feel like Tomorrow Never Dies is Brosnan's best. I'm not a big fan of Brosnan's take, but I think TND really suited it. It's suave, sophisticated, contemporaneously modern. It's also oddly more applicable than ever, with a plot based on a mogul wanting to control the media and, through it, the global narrative. I think the female characters are considerably better than any of the others in Brosnan's films, and it's got quite a lot of really classical moments and inflections - Stamper, the blonde European henchman; the evil lair (in this case, a bloodystealth boat!); the scene where he waits for Paris Carver (excellent naming!) in the hotel feels like a spiritual follow-on from when Connery waits up in Dr. No; the car chase is a hell of a lot of fun; even the flirting between Bond and Moneypenny is tremendous! It's even got not one but TWO thumping theme songs - the titular one by Sheryl Crow and then k.d. lang's Surrender that plays over the end credits.

    I'm actually beginning to realise I really do like TND quite a bit....

  26. #26
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel 'Plan View Post
    And then I think either A View to a Kill or Tomorrow Never Dies. It's a toss up really. I think the former is the Moore Bond you should go for if you want to watch a Moore Bond. It's silly, it's camp, it's got a zany plot, it's everything that defined Moore's run really, but doesn't go too far into nonsense like I felt Moonraker did or too far into subpar quality like I felt Golden Gun did. It feels like Bond as far as you can stretch Bond towards silly before it becomes either parody or just a really rubbish. And I know I name dropped two of your guys' picks but I swear I'm not trolling!
    Oh man, you are really not going to like the critics' choices on RT then - A View to a Kill ranks dead last, other than the parody Casino Royale from the 1960s (which shouldn't even really count but for some reason they've put in the list).

    I also really like Tomorrow Never Dies! Think it deserves a lot better than the 20th place they've given it in this list. As a fan of both that and Goldeneye, I wonder if I'm a bigger fan of Brosnan's bond than most? Seems like it might be the case. The other two can disappear for all I care (though even then I'm not sure I have the same hate for them that seems to be pretty common).

    If you're interested, second for Moore after The Spy Who Loved Me was For Your Eyes Only, followed by Live and Let Die in third. License to Kill finished above both of them, though. Even though Dalton didn't make the 'top five picking one' list at all, his two films both ranked reasonably highly.

    If I get the time I might go through and re-order them by the audience score, rather than the critics.

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  27. #27
    Transgender Terror
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    You're not alone on your love for TND, Plan. Elliot Carver was an underrated villain. Sure, he was no Silva, but who was?

    Spectre was pure dogshit. So unsatisfying after Skyfall.

    Die Another Day also left a bad taste in my mouth. The plot with Gustav Graves/whatever his real name was seemed a reach, even for a fictional spy series. A little on the nose with the imagery too. The climactic battle at the end seemed to have a rather bland, predictable ending as well.
    Last edited by T.O.; 23 Hours Ago at 10:11 PM.

  28. #28
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    C'mon, give us a top 5!

    I went through the audience rankings, and it didn't take too long in the end. The notable things are that Casino Royale moves into joint first with Goldfinger. Goldneye moves up from a top 10 to a top 5 film. Lazenby and Dalton both do worse than they do on the critics lists, with The Living Daylights the least hurt of the three movies they did. The Man With the Golden Gun moves from near the bottom to sort of the middle of the pack, which I can live with! Moonraker falls to near the bottom, Quantum of Solace falls dramatically (beneath Spectre!) and A View to a Kill continues to prop up the list - dead last on both the critics and audience score.

    1. Goldfinger
    1. Casino Royale
    2. Skyfall
    3. From Russia With Love
    4. Goldeneye
    5. Dr. No
    6. The Spy Who Loved Me
    7. Thunderball
    8. You Only Live Twice
    9. The Living Daylights
    10. Live and Let Die
    11. On Her Majesty’s Secret Service
    11. For Your Eyes Only
    12. Spectre
    13. License to Kill
    14. Quantum of Solace
    14. Diamonds are Forever
    15. The Man With the Golden Gun
    16. Tomorrow Never Dies
    17. The World is Not Enough
    18. Octopussy
    19. Moonraker
    20. Die Another Day
    21. A View to a Kill

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  29. #29
    Transgender Terror
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    Fine, ya brigand.

    1- Skyfall
    2 - Casino Royale
    3 - GoldenEye
    4 - Goldfinger
    5 - Tomorrow Never Dies

    I'm a sucker for the contemporary films, yes.

  30. #30
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Can't knock it. I'd watch all of those again.

    Think my initial thing up the page about only liking Skyfall of the Craig films was a bit harsh. I liked Casino Royale fine - just not as much as everyone else seemed to like it (similar thing with Goldfinger actually). It might suffer from me seeing it with all the hype, while the Skyfall hype was deflated by the fact that I'd really not liked the previous one, and hadn't raved about Casino Royale the way many had, so it felt like more of a pleasant surprise.

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  31. #31
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    I certainly have no delusions that A View To A Kill is well liked! But I've always had a soft spot - for a while as a kid it succeeded You Only Live Twice as my favourite of the entire franchise in fact - and I still think it's the best pick if you want to watch a Moore movie. Bond feels like another instance of a franchise where certain reputations solidify themselves regardless of what you find if you strip things away.

    For example, The Spy Who Loved Me is mostly considered Moore's best (I have a DVD copy signed by Jaws himself!), but it really is just a raft (no pun intended) of reheated ideas better executed in You Only Live Twice. In fact, as I understand it, it was originally even going to have Blofeld as the villain and they only created Stromberg because a rights issue prevented Blofeld from being used. And Stromberg is one of the weakest villains of the entire franchise.

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